Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating Human Rights Abuses

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by tptacek on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @05:29PM (#11530615)

For starters, it's different because the US does not in fact hunt down communists, but the Communist Part of China does hunt down, imprison, and torture Falun Gong adherents.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by dsp1234 on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @05:46PM (#11530727)

For starters, it's different because the US does not in fact hunt down communists,

Does not in fact hunt down communists... today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism#Laws_and_arrests

See also Guantanamo Bay, Internment Camps, Lynching, etc.

It may not be the same today, but to think the US isn't above doing terrible things to those they are afraid of is to lose sight of our history.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by tptacek on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @06:02PM (#11530835)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by dsp1234 on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @06:13PM (#11530915)

Yes, 100%. If yesterday you do something bad, and today I do something bad, and you tell me to stop, there has to be something more than "I don't do that today".

It's shitty what is being done, but saying "Nope, we don't do that, but ignore the fact that we did it less than 100 years ago" isn't the greatest of moral arguments. Maybe better arguments, and better actions are in order.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by tptacek on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @06:15PM (#11530922)

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, but read back on the thread: not only is MichaelGG's logic faulty, but it's being used to justify what Cisco did. There's no more poisonous form of whataboutism. I think they should re-think that logic.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by MichaelGG on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @08:03PM (#11531446)

I apologize, I misunderstood the situation (my own fault). I disagree that Cisco is doing anything wrong in helping China against such groups (yes I realise the implications of that) but I understand how people may very correctly disagree and such politics aren't for HN and I shouldn't have bought it up.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by Zigurd on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @06:17PM (#11530937)

We're the pot and they're the kettle, both black, but that is utterly beside the point. The question is whether a US company aided a foreign government in committing human rights violations. Hypocrisy is bad, but it doesn't excuse US vendors who enable foreigners to be imprisoned and tortured.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by MichaelGG on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @05:40PM (#11530687)

I admit I don't know the details here very much, but didn't the US do that a while ago to communists? Perhaps not the torture part but the US doesn't have a great track record there either, eh?

The Chinese government has noted that Falun Gong is an active threat to their society and have strict laws.

Half the world has strange laws. Some places drugs can get you killed. Should a US drug-dog training company be sued for leading to the death of drug users?

Edit: What if it was a system to hunt down cults that the US has attacked, like those at Waco. Or that other countries don't tolerate, like Scientology?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by zasz on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @05:47PM (#11530732)

Since when does the US being a shit justify other countries being a shit? People should just not be shits.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by michaelbuddy on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @06:41PM (#11531063)

Not only that but is there any evidence 'communists' are imprisoned or given reeducation within the last 45 years just for identifying as communists. One thing to note though. Being a practitioner of some religion / tai chi style system doesn't mean you can't also be breaking other laws which, though may seem strict or draconian, doesn't automatically mean religious persecution is a workable defense.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by MichaelGG on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @06:08PM (#11530880)

You're totally right. But then why is the US prosecuting this kind of thing? Would be like Saudi Arabia going after people for women's rights.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by tptacek on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @06:12PM (#11530901)

First, the US isn't prosecuting this kind of thing, because it is not currently a crime in the US to assist a foreign government in the persecution of its people. Cisco is being sued, in civil court, by Falun Gong adherents that were victimized by the system Cisco built.

That's possible because US tort law recognizes international laws to which the US is a signatory: if you commit a tort against someone, and the manner in which you do it violates an international law we recognize, the US quite sensibly recognizes the resulting tort claim.

Second: the US should prosecute this sort of thing, because otherwise the US will allow itself to become a haven for companies building technology to assist in "crimes against humanity". We have a spotty enough history with this as it stands. And, in the case of China, our local companies have enormous financial incentives to participate in this stuff.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Cisco’s Attempt to Dodge Responsibility for Facilitating ... by joesmo on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @06:41PM (#11531061)

Your examples don't support your viewpoint. Yes both companies should be held responsible for deaths especially in your Waco example where so many innocent people were murdered for no reason.

[ Parent | on HN ]