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Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by microcolonel on Sunday April 17, 2016 @04:11PM (#11516100)
Why don't they just shoot them down when they approach airports? Seems like a much more measured and appropriate response than "no drones anywhere without documents".
Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by nmrm2 on Sunday April 17, 2016 @04:43PM (#11516220)
Routinely shooting down aircraft near a busy commercial airport. What could possibly go wrong?!
Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by microcolonel on Sunday April 17, 2016 @04:52PM (#11516258)
Well, not shooting them down seems like it could go much worse. I'd hate to get one of those in an engine.

Think what a terrorist could do with this though. Legislating it will only really stop people who don't intend to fly small aircraft into a no-fly-zone anyway.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by nmrm2 on Sunday April 17, 2016 @06:03PM (#11516539)
> not shooting them down seems like it could go much worse

Sure. But a sensible policy would also minimize the amount of weapons that are deployed in heavily trafficked airspace. That is why the sensible approach is to heavily regulate or even by-default prohibit UAV traffic anywhere near airports or common commercial aircraft routes.

In other words, parent post is a false dichotomy. It's possible to design and enforce regulations that 1) minimize danger and 2) enable aircraft controllers and the military to address rogue UAVs before they enter heavily trafficked civilian airspaces. Those regulations should go far beyond "shoot-to-kill near airports", but also don't have to be as encompassing as current bans.

Simply deploying weapons in commercial airspace as a complete alternative to legislation and regulation is insane.

> Legislating it will only really stop people who don't intend to fly small aircraft into a no-fly-zone anyway.

I think you under-estimate the size of the group of people who do dangerous shit without malicious intent. Look at the list of incidents at the end of the article, for instance, and guess at how many of those were intentional.

Furthermore, even in the case of malicious intent, crafting regulation that clearly and unambiguously sets expectations can allow regulators and the military to deploy counter-measures long before doing so creates an unacceptable risk to surrounding civilians and infrastructure.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by microcolonel on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @12:40AM (#11524915)
This is already highly regulated; the reason that harsher general legislation is sought is that the uninformed will nonetheless operate UAVs next to airports and endanger lives.

Hence, my tradeoff is between making it difficult to own or operate a UAV ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES OR ADJACENT TERRITORIES; and making it incredibly improbable and difficult to simply ride one into an airport and cause a disaster, either by accident or on purpose.

My tradeoff also bears on the doubtful effectiveness of the legislative approach to prevent intentional violation of controlled airspace. In this case you require the sentries anyhow.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by nmrm2 on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @03:59PM (#11529768)
The point of my previous post is that your supposed trade-off is a false choice.

There's A LOT of middle ground between today's limitations on drone operators and a world where we expect to shoot down aircraft near crowded airports. If you try to sell that either/or to the public, you're going to lose. And rightly so.

FORTUNATELY, there's a lot the FAA could do to make the USA more drone-friendly while also ensuring the safety of conventional aircraft and critical infrastructure. Good drone policy, if ever enacted, will follow from this observation. It will not follow from a false choice between militarized anarchy and industry-crippling regulation.

(It'd also be neat if we could introduce technical solutions to the stupid/clueless person problem. For example, it'd be nice if the FAA funded the development of open-source, optional, and easy to disable software that warns the pilot (and only the pilot) before the drone enters a restricted area. It'd also be really nice if drone manufacturers voluntarily installed that software on capable drones. We're all better off if Johnny doesn't commit a felony and ground the next 30 minutes of take-offs while trying out his cool birthday present...)

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by k-mcgrady on Sunday April 17, 2016 @04:47PM (#11516240)
Shoot them down as a backup but if you legislate it a lot of amateur morons will think twice before flying near an airport. There's no way to know if this was malicious. It was probably just an idiot who wouldn't do it if he knew it was illegal.
Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by tptacek on Sunday April 17, 2016 @05:16PM (#11516348)
People live near airports. You can't simply vaporize a drone; whatever you do to arrest it in the sky is going to cause drone pieces to hurtle towards the earth.

Same goes for jamming them.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by JshWright on Sunday April 17, 2016 @08:29PM (#11517019)
A lot of modern UAV platforms have a 'failsafe' mode if they lose the transmitter signal.
Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by goodplay on Sunday April 17, 2016 @09:53PM (#11517262)
which might include flying across the run way to the coordinates it took off from.

As others have pointed out, the last thing you want is some object flying over the airport that is not under your control.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by thrownaway2424 on Sunday April 17, 2016 @05:23PM (#11516381)
>>> You can't simply vaporize a drone <<<

Challenge accepted.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by Pinckney on Sunday April 17, 2016 @11:14PM (#11517503)
Taking LAX for an example... It has a perimeter of 4ish miles. Assume one sentry with a shotgun, loaded with birdshot every 300ft to give decent coverage of the perimeter, that gives us about 60 sentries. At 15 $/hr, 24/7, that gives a minimum cost of about $7M/year, ignoring any overhead for management, training, firearms, secure storage, etc.

All that achieves is to secure the airport, poorly, against a very unlikely threat, and one that is unlikely to down a plane even if an intrusion occurs.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by codecamper on Sunday April 17, 2016 @05:07PM (#11516316)
How about just jamming them?

Nobody needs to be flying drones near airports. Seriously.

I'm certainly not interested in pulling this off.. but how hard would it be to just simultaneously launch a swarm into a busy airport while planes are landing?

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by paulmd on Sunday April 17, 2016 @06:17PM (#11516609)
"Return-to-home" functionality is quite common. The GPS knows where it took off, and where it is now, and in the event that it loses the control signal it'll (try to) navigate back home.

Having a drone under control is almost always preferable to having a drone out of control, particularly in the pattern of a major airport. If you're going to take it down, it needs to happen in a way that gives you control of the drone, not just messes up their control.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by Analemma_ on Sunday April 17, 2016 @06:14PM (#11516588)
> How about just jamming them?

The time window in which that's a valid option is closing fast. Autonomous flyers that don't need an external signal are already pretty good and after a few more years of iterations, they'll be even better and available to everyone. Not to mention air traffic requires lots of radio communication of its own, along with radar and GPS, and jamming equipment would need to be guaranteed not to interfere with any of that. It's a non-solution.

Re:Drone hits British Airways plane approaching Heathrow Air... by dingaling on Sunday April 17, 2016 @05:41PM (#11516448)
> Nobody needs to be flying drones near airports.

But who defines 'near'? At present, this is defined by the industry with a vested interest in passing the costs onto regulators and law enforcement. Not in investing in drone detection or mitigation technology.

CTRs around airports already deprive residents of their airspace rights, often to a radius of 5nm from an airport. In many cities that means no drones in a large chunk of residential area.