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Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by WA on Sunday April 17, 2016 @12:21PM (#11515055)
Wait, you need to ask Apple to have your app featured?

This is a really insightful post, but at the same time, I don't even want to bother with all the Do's and Don'ts. See, I don't develop games. I have a total niche app product and Apple does exactly zero things for me and still wants 30%. I even drive the people to the app store through my website. Exposure? No. Payment handling? Could do this myself. New users? Not really.

Luckily, my web app makes 10x more money than the stupid app.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by rogerbinns on Sunday April 17, 2016 @05:35PM (#11516431)
> ... Apple does exactly zero things for me and still wants 30% ...

I'll bite. The Romans, err I mean Apple have done nothing, except at least these:

* Maintains a user database including authentication, plus all the support costs (lost password support is very high)

* Payment handling (you dismiss it, but no one does it for free) including keeping up with tax authorities and legal systems in much of the world

* Almost unlimited (re)downloads for users to a reasonable number of devices. Bandwidth is cheap but not free.

* Backup and restore for application data. (You may not use it, but that functionality is available to apps without extra fees.)

* A curated walled garden including a review process. I'm sure your app is fine, but Apple keeping the dregs out and avoiding the place turning into a cesspool means users can be more confident about the apps and that halo effect helps all apps in the store.

* Mechanisms to extend your app such as IAP, and an advertising solution etc

* Access to a large user base, with reasonably fair rules that everyone has play by

* They make all the above work together

The case can be made that the benefits used vary by app, but in aggregate it isn't an unreasonable amount for them to charge. It is worth noting that competitors haven't done anything substantially different.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by WA on Monday April 18, 2016 @03:15AM (#11518213)
Yes, you're right generally speaking. But I'm just pointing out that for me(!) with a niche app(!) it doesn't work out and I need nothing of the stuff you mentioned. Payments? PayPal and Stripe are reasonably priced and compete with each other. This makes prices reasonable.

Maybe I can make my point more clear by saying what I expect from Apple: Let me publish an app and don't tell me how to run my business. I want to put up an app in store that uses external payments. Apple doesn't want this. Well, kind of, sort of. The App Store Guidelines section 11 are pretty clear on what Apple expects:

Don't charge people outside of the App Store, because we want a share of that pie. And if you do, we ain't gonna like it. We might approve your app, we might not. We might change our mind, too. Depends on how explicit you're selling your stuff.

And for a long time, it was simply not possible to offer apps that are paid for outside the App Store. And now, it's still very vague. You have to offer an app that also works without requiring a paid account.

Anyways, thanks for the input. I take this discussion to reconsider my position and think of a way how I can make this work. I must admit that Apple changed the rules over the recent months a bit. It's maybe a bit more flexible now.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by rogerbinns on Monday April 18, 2016 @12:51PM (#11521311)
Their payment approach may seem to be a bit overreaching, but it does make sense. Remember they still provide all the services I listed for apps. If you provide your app for free then Apple makes nothing as well, while still providing those services. It isn't unreasonable to then say that if you make money, Apple gets some too.

It also isn't a bad idea from an incentives point of view. Apple make more money if their developers make more money. And the benefits accrue just over double to the developer than they do to Apple. Similarly developers being less successful also hurts Apple. At least the 30% cut means Apple have to keep earning it.

Remember that as a developer you can walk away, and support other platforms instead. You can avoid stores completely and do everything yourself. With rare exceptions, you are very unlikely to do as well.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by WA on Monday April 18, 2016 @04:13PM (#11522830)
> At least the 30% cut means Apple have to keep earning it.

I think this is exactly the point that gives me the bad feeling: If Apple really provided "the best service", people would buy their services from them and the price would be dictated by demand and competition (ironically, just like the price of apps in the App Store, which tends to go down over time).

But this is not how it works. People aren't free to choose which services they want to buy from Apple and whether they want to buy from Apple at all (if they want to be in the iOS playground). Apple forces their services on everybody. There is only a single package: Take it or leave it.

> Remember that as a developer you can walk away, and support other platforms instead.

Theoretically it's true, but ultimately, the customer decides. Although I put a lot of effort into a very nice mobile-first web design, which will hopefully render the app unnecessary in the long run. Together with the "always online" trend and increasingly better mobile internet connections, this might work out.

Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate them. I don't want to sound as if I'm only arguing my position here. I'll think about the stuff you said.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by rogerbinns on Thursday April 21, 2016 @01:21PM (#11543771)
Developers are not Apple's customers - the people who buy the devices are. Those people have freely chosen Apple and continue to do so.

There is another way to look at Apple's cut, even when you as a developer consider it unfair. For the end users it establishes a certain amount of credibility. Apple places certain hoops developers have to go through as well as taking some money. An end user is going to find a solution that can do all that far more credible than one that can't.

It is different now, but a few decades ago one of the functions of advertising was credibility. If a product was advertised, it meant there was an aura of success about it (the money to advertise has to come from somewhere and someone has to stand behind it) and that success was sufficiently great to spend some of the revenue on ads. The bigger the ad spend, the more credible/success there is perceived to be. Everyone will be a lot more skeptical about something that can't even afford to advertise, or does so "cheaply".

The same thing is happening with university education. Someone attending one, spending real money and persevering is more credible than someone taking a few online courses, even though the actual education they could get is similar.

Circling back to Apple, the app store is already saturated, and I suspect Apple will be more than happy to raise the bar some more. The most credible apps are what they and the users will want. Imagine they added a section for folks like you "these apps use none of our services and we take no cut from them". That section would smell like failure, not success.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by WA on Thursday April 21, 2016 @03:27PM (#11544750)
That's a very interesting perspective. Haven't considered that before.
Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by aianus on Sunday April 17, 2016 @10:22PM (#11517370)
> It is worth noting that competitors haven't done anything substantially different.

I can download an .apk directly from a developer if Google doesn't want to host it on the app store. I've done this, for example, with the Betfair app.

That's a pretty huge difference.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by rogerbinns on Monday April 18, 2016 @10:53AM (#11520355)
You are talking about a difference in platforms, not in stores and services they provide. Pretty much all the app stores on all the platforms charge 30%. They also offer substantially the same services.
Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by qzervaas on Sunday April 17, 2016 @01:47PM (#11515440)
The post is almost entirely true for non-games too. I have a successful app and these are the exact things Apple want.

Also, like he said, don't complain, just deal with it. Saying they do nothing for you isn't entirely true, or you wouldn't have an app on the App Store.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by WA on Sunday April 17, 2016 @02:21PM (#11515575)
I have an app in the App Store, mostly because my users want one. It does make a bit of money, but development has stalled and is somewhat subsidized by my SaaS. If there was only the app and not the website, it would not be economically feasible.

I'm not complaining, but stating that I'm not happy with how things go. The only reason why it's "acceptable" to give Apple 30% is because they're the only game in town. If I gave another third party 30%, they surely had to bring a bit more to the table than what Apple is offering me (in my specific situation with a niche app).

If everybody shuts up, nothing will ever change – although expressing dissatisfaction probably won't change much either I guess.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by jacalata on Sunday April 17, 2016 @03:47PM (#11515971)
If you had only the website and not an app, would that be economically feasible?
Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by jkirsteins on Sunday April 17, 2016 @02:40PM (#11515646)
> Apple does exactly zero things for me and still wants 30%

It gives you access to its customers. That's not a bad deal for many.

Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by WA on Sunday April 17, 2016 @02:45PM (#11515676)
No, as I said before: I actually bring most customers myself. Most buys happen because they find my website through Google first and then decide to buy the app. See sibling posting: Users need some kind of sophistication to use it successfully.
Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by tamana on Monday April 18, 2016 @12:31AM (#11517741)
Can you still your service on your website, and publish a free companion app in the app store?
Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by clamprecht on Sunday April 17, 2016 @12:31PM (#11515102)
What is your app?
Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by WA on Sunday April 17, 2016 @02:23PM (#11515584)
Sorry, I won't give the actual name. It's a B2C app in the health section and requires quite a bit of knowledge by its users. So, this basically disqualifies it as ever being featured, because the users need to be a bit more sophisticated than average joe browsing the category page in the App Store.
Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by alawrence on Sunday April 17, 2016 @08:45PM (#11517077)
Any tips on following a similar path to creating profitable apps?
Re:Over $700k selling a premium mobile game by paulpauper on Sunday April 17, 2016 @03:24PM (#11515871)
med school app?