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Re:Space Shuttle vs. Buran by mixmastamyk on Saturday April 09, 2016 @04:21PM (#11463116)
Interesting, I was just reading up on the space shuttle design process, and how the shuttle design was hurt by politics and scope creep. Apparently the project was in jeopardy at some point and needed buy-in from the Air Force. So they made a few changes, such as making it much bigger, and the tank disposable for potential military applications.

Well, turns out the shuttle was never used by the military. But the legacy of those decisions enabled but ultimately doomed the shuttle. It did not meet it's economic goals and was less safe because of them. Is that a correct reading of what happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_design_process

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/...

This is where the Buran comes in, they largely copied the shuttle, but did they have the foresight to improve the poor parts of the design?

Re:Space Shuttle vs. Buran by creshal on Saturday April 09, 2016 @04:40PM (#11463208)
> This is where the Buran comes in, they largely copied the shuttle, but did they have the foresight to improve the poor parts of the design?

Largely, yes. With the added benefit of hindsight they were able to give it much safer heat shielding and boosters, and did a million other small improvements.

But the size remained, because Soviet intelligence couldn't quite figure out what the Shuttle was supposed to be good for. The Buran was essentially a just-in-case program: Once they figured out what the US wanted to do with it, they'd have the launcher necessary to copy it.

Unfortunately, the US never figured it out either. For the roles the Shuttle ended up being used in the 80s and early 90s, existing Soviet hardware was more than a match, so the Buran was cancelled.

Only much, much later was the ISS planned around the Shuttle's capabilities and found a limited use for its construction. (Some Shuttles, the earlier ones were too heavy to reach the ISS with any useful payload.)

Re:Space Shuttle vs. Buran by bane on Saturday April 09, 2016 @04:50PM (#11463251)
> Soviet intelligence couldn't quite figure out what the Shuttle was supposed to be good for.

I'm reminded of this famous joke: http://militaryhumor.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/military...

> Only much, much later was the ISS planned around the Shuttle's capabilities

IIR, the STS program (of which the shuttle was the only surviving part) was always intended to ferry cargo and some future spacestation parts into orbit. The ISS was the eventual compromise station and was a mere shadow of the original proposal.

Re:Space Shuttle vs. Buran by the_mitsuhiko on Saturday April 09, 2016 @05:33PM (#11463451)
> But the size remained, because Soviet intelligence couldn't quite figure out what the Shuttle was supposed to be good for. The Buran was essentially a just-in-case program: Once they figured out what the US wanted to do with it, they'd have the launcher necessary to copy it.

As far as I know they could only imagine military uses for it and never envisioned it to be used for civilian purposes.

Re:Space Shuttle vs. Buran by nickff on Saturday April 09, 2016 @05:25PM (#11463425)
Space shuttle was actually used for a few military launches, and did deploy military (or NRO) payload(s). If you look at a list of STS missions, the military ones have 'undisclosed' missions.

The pentagon discontinued reliance on STS after the interruption caused by the Challenger explosion.

Re:Space Shuttle vs. Buran by joshvm on Saturday April 09, 2016 @05:11PM (#11463351)
Although the particular modifications were not used, the Shuttle (as a launch system) certainly was used by the military or at least the NRO. Several missions were classified, most were presumably spy satellite launch and maintenance.

It caused a lot of communication problems because everything was coded, astronauts forgot what code words meant and the whole thing was a bit of a joke.

http://www.airspacemag.com/space/secret-space-shuttles-35318...

Re:Space Shuttle vs. Buran by codezero on Saturday April 09, 2016 @05:00PM (#11463297)
The military did use the shuttle but maybe not in the way you think: they didn't have a separate military only shuttle, but the shuttle was used to launch many very large military satellites into orbit.