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Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by BurningFrog on Thursday April 07, 2016 @03:17PM (#11449826)
...the houses would almost all be built for the very well off. The amount of houses you'd have to build before you started constructing truly affordable housing is immense.

This is a common mistake. In reality, all added supply brings down price levels across the board.

Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by more_corn on Thursday April 07, 2016 @09:31PM (#11452013)
I don't think you thought this all the way though. True, each new unit reduces the delta between supply and demand. But for prices to actually drop that delta would have to be reduced dramatically. Also the housing market has interesting striations.

Reducing demand at the top prevents the demand for high-end from overflowing into mid and low end. This does little good if the majority of people moving to SF are middle class. (Which they probably are because bell curves) To make a real difference you have to also add massive quantities of mid and low end --quantities about an order of magnitude higher than SF is currently planning. (going by the 10x disparity between population growth and housing supply creation)

And here comes the hard part: it's hard to build middle end and affordable units when neighborhood associations block the building permit until the developer pays multi-million dollar bribes (sorry donations). http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/

Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by shkkmo on Friday April 08, 2016 @03:41AM (#11453182)
> Reducing demand at the top prevents the demand for high-end from overflowing into mid and low end. This does little good if the majority of people moving to SF are middle class.

It does plenty of good because there will be fewer mid and low-end units occupied by high-income individuals and thus more available to mid and low income residents. This only has an effect up to the point where high-income supply catches up with demand, but we are a long ways off from that point.

Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by beavisthegenius on Thursday April 07, 2016 @05:43PM (#11450956)
Not necessarily. If the supply & demand meet at equilibrium for a commonly agreed price then added supply will decrease price. However, we aren't at equilibrium as we continually see sales going for 500k-1mm+ above asking which implies that true price discovery hasn't been reached. With such forces still in play, it would only make sense to cater to the demand willing and able to afford such prices. There isn't any reason to be build low income housing despite the demand because the economic benefit to the builder and seller isn't there.
Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by muzz on Thursday April 07, 2016 @03:29PM (#11449939)
Actual market dynamics are complicated. There are so many effects that happen when housing is built. New housing in SF is being sold to out-of-towners who don't actually live there. Building housing into a downtrodden neighborhood can improve it significantly and actually increase values, etc.
Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by khuey on Thursday April 07, 2016 @06:35PM (#11451245)
http://sfcontroller.org/sites/default/files/FileCenter/Docum...

"Market-rate housing probably has contributed to gentrification in many cities in the past. But the data shows clearly that, in San Francisco in 2015, market-rate housing development is not accommodating upper-income movers who would otherwise be somehow shut out of the city's housing market. On the contrary, the overwhelming majority of wealthy new residents do not live in new housing, and conversely, the vast majority of new market rate construction creates housing opportunities for existing city residents. For this reason, we find no reason to believe that either a temporary moratorium, or an indefinite prohibition, of market rate housing will reduce the number of upper-income residents in the Mission, or slow the process of gentrification that the neighborhood has been experiencing."

Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by muzz on Thursday April 07, 2016 @08:33PM (#11451786)
Yes the first sentence is my point.
Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by wernercd on Thursday April 07, 2016 @03:26PM (#11449907)
But you completely ignore the "time and amount of houses it would take" aspect.

If you can only build 10 houses, and make 10% commission... are you going to build a shack? or are you going to build mansion?

The houses that get built, if the gates were to open wide, would all start off on the high end... while that would start a downward pressure, it would still be a very long time before those who can afford $200k for a house see anything in their range built.

Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by slyall on Thursday April 07, 2016 @04:04PM (#11450196)
You are missing the point. Houses for poor people are almost never built, instead poor people live in 50 year old places that were built for the rich or middle class.

What happens is that 10 people move into those new places and 10 people move into their old one and the vacancy works it's way down the line. Eventually some guy down the bottom gets slightly cheaper rent or a better place.

Imagine that instead 100,000 high-end apartments were built in the Bay Area. None of them will have poor people move into them but instead places like (to quote elsewhere in the thread) "downtown PA (university Ave) its right around $2800-3000 for a 1 bedroom, for places with 20 year old appliances and no upgrades." might now be $1000/month cheaper and affordable by somebody on a lot lower income.

Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by Fede_V on Thursday April 07, 2016 @06:18PM (#11451144)
I think you are exactly right, and in a healthy market that's what would happen. In practice, I believe we are so far from equilibrium that it would take such a long time for the trickle down effects to push housing costs in a range which is affordable for people that aren't well off.

Telling people that within 10-15 years if you keep building several hundreds of thousands of houses eventually rents will be affordable is not a winning slogan :)

Re:The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It by BurningFrog on Thursday April 07, 2016 @03:49PM (#11450078)
Well, a mansion should be able to house more people than a shack, so it would increase supply more, and pressure prices down more.

New housing would start off being expensive because all housing in SF is expensive. Not the other way around.

Maybe the root of this fallacy is that it assumes prices are constant. If you build something today and charge $5k/month for it, that's how it will somehow remain forever. But in reality prices are set by supply and demand, for both new and old housing.