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Re:Tor exit node operator gets raided by police by geofft on Tuesday April 05, 2016 @01:29PM (#11432426)
The mailman is operating on behalf of the postal service. Since the postal service is basically the government, that's confusing, so let's say that we're talking about a FedEx delivery person delivering content that is inherently illegal. (Perhaps it's a controlled substance with no medical uses, perhaps it's counterfeit money, perhaps it's a chemical weapon, etc.)

It seems to me that it would be patently unreasonable to raid the FedEx employee's home, but it would be perfectly reasonable to hold FedEx the company responsible for not delivering such things. If it happened once, sure, raiding them is excessive. But if the government knew that FedEx, by design, actively did not care what they were delivering and made it hard for themselves to figure that out until it's loaded onto a truck for local delivery, and they had evidence that some drugs or weapons were being delivered, then sure, raiding the local FedEx distribution center and searching it seems within the realm of reasonable actions. Seizing all packages at that distribution center would be unreasonable, but the analog (seizing the computers) didn't happen.

Re:Tor exit node operator gets raided by police by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday April 05, 2016 @08:15PM (#11435673)
Isn't that how UPS and FedEx actually work? You can go to FedEx with an already-sealed box and pay them cash to deliver it. They don't know what it is, they're not going to open it, it could be anything. Presumably they have some kind of policy against illegal substances, but how are they supposed to verify that? Some of the packages they deliver most certainly are narcotics or child pornography or some other illegal thing.

You're saying that should justify the FBI going to all the FedEx hubs and opening all the packages to check for various illegal stuff?

Re:Tor exit node operator gets raided by police by geofft on Tuesday April 05, 2016 @09:00PM (#11435858)
I do in fact think that if the FBI knew that certain people were using FedEx to reliably traffic in illegal substances inside sealed boxes, they would put pressure on FedEx to make it stop somehow, and raid them if they flatly refused. This might involve having them open the packages, but it more likely involves them identifying the people who these boxes come from and go to, and having them drop them as customers. And I am pretty confident that this does happen, because the profession of drug smuggling continues to exist, and druglords aren't just outsourcing their logistics to FedEx and UPS. I certainly agree that some fraction of their packages are illegal, but it's not straightforward to use the service this way.

Unlike UPS and FedEx, Tor makes this straightforward, and also tries to avoid knowing the identities of people who are sending things via their service. So the police don't have that option.

(Note that the above is simply a description of what Tor is currently doing, as I understand it, and not an attempt to make a moral judgment one way or the other as to what Tor should be doing.)

Re:Tor exit node operator gets raided by police by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @04:13AM (#11437404)
Drug smuggling continues to exist because drug smuggling is wholesale and FedEx is retail. And FedEx wouldn't know to provide security to prevent competing dealers from holding up their drivers.

I suspect that package services are used with high frequency by criminals without these constraints, e.g. the ones committing mail fraud. The police deal with this not by searching the contents of random packages but by arresting the actual perpetrators regardless of what they use for a delivery service.

There seems to be a common impression that if the police can't find you using one specific investigative method then they have to give up and go home. There are hundreds of different ways to catch criminals. Most of the ones people complain about the police losing are ones they never traditionally had to begin with.