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Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by outworlder on Thursday March 31, 2016 @06:04PM (#11400948)
"Shabby roadways"? If there was ever a case of "first world problems", this is it.

Frankly, US roadways are really good. I was amazed by the amount of signage present, not to mention the pavement itself.

Yes there are imperfections. But when was the last time you tore apart your car's axle due to inability to avoid the 20th gaping hole you ran across in just one way of your commute?

You want shabby roads? Go to third world countries. That's the real test for self-driving cars.

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by capote on Thursday March 31, 2016 @06:29PM (#11401101)
It's pointless to compare the United States with third world countries. You should be holding it to much higher standards.

I myself compare the United States with our peers in Western Europe, Japan, Korea, etc. In this scope, our roadways are actually kind of sad, especially when you factor in how much we spend on them and double-especially when you factor in that we don't have solid railroads.

Our highways are generally paved really thin (compare to: German highways) and they end up cracking and breaking all the time. I've never driven between two cities on an Interstate highway without being slowed down by construction work.

Also, just from day to day observation: I live in Chicago and everywhere I walk, the streets look disastrous. They're broken apart, and some of them are half-repaired with concrete chunks sticking out (check out LaSalle and Randolph)--on some streets it's a miracle to me some cars get through without a flat tire.

We are a tremendously successful and advanced country. There is clearly a very big problem with the state of our roads.

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by gwright on Thursday March 31, 2016 @06:48PM (#11401209)
> double-especially when you factor in that we don't have solid railroads

I think you mean 'passenger railroads'. The US freight railroad is world-class. Lots of spurious debate about railroads in the US comes from confusing the pros and cons of a freight network (which we have) with the pros and cons of a high-speed passenger network (which we don't have). The benefits of a continent-sized high-speed rail network in a continent with low population density tends to be over-emphasized.

http://business.time.com/2012/07/09/us-freight-railroads/

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by capote on Thursday March 31, 2016 @08:10PM (#11401595)
That is indeed what I meant.

As for benefits/needs of a high speed passenger network--all I have to say is that my current options for going Chicago - New York which I do frequently are: 1. garbage airlines that are consolidating more and more and increasing their prices for no apparent reason, 2. broken roads that are constantly being repaired, and 3. Amtrak

That said, it's clear to me that a high speed rail connection (for example Chicago - NY at ~200mph) would be a no brainer. I'd even pay more than I pay American Airlines for the route.

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by Tiksi on Friday April 01, 2016 @12:20AM (#11402585)
Between DC-NYC-Boston we have the Acela train here, which is surprisingly decent in terms of price and service. It gets up to 150mph but due to traffic and the layout of the tracks only averages 80mph or so. Still, it beats flying imho.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela_Express

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by Grishnakh on Friday April 01, 2016 @04:39PM (#11408409)
We don't necessarily need continent-sized high-speed rail. Our population density isn't nearly as low as you think it is, or as the official numbers suggest. The problem with the official numbers is that population density is not uniform: something like 2/3 of America's population lives east of the Mississippi River. And much of that lives in the northeast corridor. When you add in all the vast, unoccupied areas in the western states like Wyoming, then the overall density seems low.

So, instead of worrying about continent-sized high-speed rail networks, maybe we should start by thinking about building a high-speed rail network that spans the Eastern Seaboard states, where so much of the population is packed, then then expand out from there (Chicago, Memphis, New Orleans, Houston, etc.). We've already tried this with Amtrak and their Acela Express, but it's kinda lame: expensive and not that fast.

If we just built a seriously fast high-speed train between Boston and DC (stopping at NYC, Philly, and Baltimore along the way), and priced it competitively with air travel, then we'd be getting somewhere. Extend it down to RTP, Atlanta, and Florida next, and then a western spur to Cleveland and Chicago.

A separate high-speed rail network along the west coast, linking San Diego, LA, SanFran, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver would also make a lot of sense.

What probably wouldn't make so much sense is trying to link the east and west coasts with such a system. Rail (even HSR) is just too slow to compete with air travel for distances that far.

Of course, Musk's Hyperloop idea might make more sense than any of this, though it'd basically be serving the same purpose in mostly the same way, just with tubes instead of rails. But its speeds would be even higher than air travel, so it could really replace air travel for major corridors, leaving air travel for places where Hyperloop isn't built yet, or for any travel which crosses large bodies of water.

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by pjc50 on Friday April 01, 2016 @09:25AM (#11404567)
High-speed rail competes badly against air travel; what makes a huge difference is commuter rail.
Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by TheCoelacanth on Friday April 01, 2016 @11:02AM (#11405262)
> High-speed rail competes badly against air travel

For long distances, yes. For short to medium distances, high-speed rail can be much better. In the DC-Boston corridor, rail is already very competitive with air and that's with "high-speed" rail speeds averaging 80mph. True high-speed rail would be much better than air in that corridor.

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by outworlder on Thursday March 31, 2016 @07:45PM (#11401475)
> It's pointless to compare the United States with third world countries. You should be holding it to much higher standards.

Not in the context of self-driving cars. For that, US roads should be good enough. If they aren't why not just provide roads that are prepared with aids (electronic or otherwise) just so self-driving cars will work properly?

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by capote on Thursday March 31, 2016 @08:50PM (#11401787)
I fully agree that self-driving cars should be able to go on US roads, and of course they're "good enough." They should be designed with any type of road in mind, because you never know where you'll have to drive.

I was simply responding to someone defending US roads when there's a publicly visible crisis happening with our road (among other) infrastructure that no politician seems to want to address.

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by trhway on Thursday March 31, 2016 @06:26PM (#11401085)
anybody can just youtube for "russian road accidents" and imagine a self-driving car in those situations. Wrt. responsibility/insurance - when it comes to post-accident "discussion" would self-driving car come with a walking robot who can use baseball bat and fence using metal wheel wrench? I'd venture to guess that deluxe version which would use handgun instead of the bat would find a lot of customers among Chechens living in Moscow.
Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by Rangi42 on Thursday March 31, 2016 @06:27PM (#11401092)
Do the third-world countries you're thinking of enforce traffic laws? Because I expect that an autonomous car could safely navigate an unmarked road if it were just paying attention to its destination and avoiding obstacles, not obeying detailed regulations.
Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by outworlder on Thursday March 31, 2016 @07:47PM (#11401483)
Expect that they don't. Or if they do, not consistently.
Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by fndjdh on Thursday March 31, 2016 @06:16PM (#11401014)
https://xkcd.com/1232/

You can replace "exploring other planets" with poor roadways, wealth inequality, or whatever else you would like.

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by cylinder on Thursday March 31, 2016 @06:29PM (#11401106)
You want shabby roads? Go to New York City.
Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by jdavis703 on Thursday March 31, 2016 @06:51PM (#11401226)
Or up state New York. I was driving on one limited-access highway where there were so many potholes the speed limit was 35 M.P.H. Usually I would not adhere to such a ridiculous speed on a highway, but in this case it felt prudent to actually go slower than that.
Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by fluxquanta on Friday April 01, 2016 @05:08PM (#11408627)
I'm an upstate (real upstate, north of Syracuse) resident. People hear "New York" and think "ooh, city!" but there are swathes of very rural, very poor areas that can barely keep up with basic maintenance. Case in point, I live in the "most fiscally stressed municipality in the state"[0]. Add to that our harsh winters and you end up with roads that are more gravel than pavement after a few years of erosion. I can't see self-driving cars ever working here as they're currently designed.

[0] http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/31231/2016...

Re:Where's the lane? Self-driving cars confused by shabby U.... by maxxxxx on Thursday March 31, 2016 @07:20PM (#11401374)
A self-driving car in Bombay traffic would be a monumental achievement!