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Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by zaroth on Sunday March 27, 2016 @11:40PM (#11372603)
Wow, great publicity for Ethereum. Except, they can't ever bring themselves to explain what it does, or what it means. We're missing the 'why'.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by adrianmacneil on Monday March 28, 2016 @12:59AM (#11372815)
Vitalik explained it pretty well at a recent talk he did at Coinbase:

Ethereum is a world computer. As in, it acts like a single public computer that can perform computations for anyone who is willing to pay for them, but instead of this computer being run by a third party, it's run by the network as a whole.

This is useful for any situation where you would usually need a trusted third party to perform some computations or enforce one side of a bargain - for example ecommerce/escrow, trading, voting, bets, issuing stock/currency, plus other things that probably have not even been thought of yet.

I agree, it can be a pretty wishy-washy mission statement at times. But then again, so was the idea of a global communications network where anyone could communicate with everyone and publish their own content in the 1980s.

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by lololomg on Monday March 28, 2016 @03:31AM (#11373133)
The bit that I don't get is how Ethereum will communicate with the outside world.

Example: I bet a friend that Hillary will be the next president. We create an Ethereum app/contract/whatever and fund it with $50 (worth of 'ether') each. When the election rolls around, we want to pay the winner automatically, but how can you do that?

You could have a rule to check some 'official' source on the internet but that data could easily be faked or unavailable. Then what?

If this kind of app is not suited to Etherium, then what are some good examples of Etherium's capabilities?

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by natrius on Monday March 28, 2016 @03:48AM (#11373165)
Gnosis is a prediction market platform that is live on Ethereum right now. http://groupgnosis.com/

There are a few ways to act as the oracle who indicates what the outcome of an event was. You can tell users to just trust you, which is what every centralized prediction market does with few problems. You can pick a few trusted oracles and require a majority vote. Or you can use any data that is served over a TLS connection so the outcome can be cryptographically verified, which is what Oraclize.it does. All of these approaches work for Gnosis markets.

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by lololomg on Monday March 28, 2016 @04:30AM (#11373242)
All of this was already possible without Ethereum. I don't see what Etherium adds to the equation here? For example with Bitcoin you can already create escrow accounts with trusted third parties (aka oracles) being the decider.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by natrius on Monday March 28, 2016 @04:41AM (#11373260)
Prediction markets are bets among arbitrary, dynamic sets of stakeholders. The price of a bet depends on the bets that have already been made. Both of these characteristics require state to be maintained across transactions in ways that Bitcoin does not allow.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by lololomg on Monday March 28, 2016 @06:36AM (#11373516)
I don't follow what you mean, there are loads of bitcoin prediction markets. Adding Etherium doesn't give you anything new.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by natrius on Monday March 28, 2016 @11:32AM (#11374840)
Gnosis runs on the Ethereum blockchain directly. The Gnosis team can't change the number of shares you own, for instance. Decentralized applications are safer for users. It was founded by the team that built Fairlay, a prediction market site that uses Bitcoin, because they believe that prediction markets should run directly on blockchains.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by arthur_pryor on Monday March 28, 2016 @08:23PM (#11378629)
just because it comes over TLS, doesn't mean it's true
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by Anonobread on Monday March 28, 2016 @02:42AM (#11373040)
> Ethereum is a world computer. As in, it acts like a single public computer that can perform computations for anyone who is willing to pay for them, but instead of this computer being run by a third party, it's run by the network as a whole.

Compared to actual Python code, or Ruby code, or any code that you can imagine, Ethereum VM code is a hobbled down child's toy. Think: Gameboy from 1995. The memory is scant. The performance, abysmal.

> This is useful for any situation where you would usually need a trusted third party to perform some computations or enforce one side of a bargain - for example ecommerce/escrow, trading, voting, bets, issuing stock/currency, plus other things that probably have not even been thought of yet.

You can do all of those things with Bitcoin. We don't promote it much because no one has cared to use any of it for years. It's always hooked in investors, though. Lots and lots of investors.

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by bachback on Monday March 28, 2016 @08:02AM (#11373746)
"World computer" => marketing hyperbole. Vitalik currently spends 0 time coding https://github.com/vbuterin/ I know the people who started this and they are mostly not very technical actually.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by natrius on Monday March 28, 2016 @12:24AM (#11372719)
Blockchains are peer-to-peer cloud computers that collectively enforce a set of rules on a historical record that they create together. If the rules meet your needs, you can use a blockchain’s history as the source of truth for any information you want because no one can break those rules. Bitcoin’s rules define a currency: how are new tokens produced, how many are allowed, how they can be transferred from one person to another, etc. Ethereum’s rules define a process for defining new rules. This makes it a universal blockchain where rules for any interaction can be defined, and anyone can choose whether to treat its historical record as their source of truth.

We're in the process of defining economic interactions—both existing and novel interactions—as entries in a digital historical record to eliminate the need for middlemen in much of our economy and give everyone access to financial tools that were once limited to the wealthy and their corporations. Social interactions that don't involve money can be built as well.

Join us. Let's build software that users control.

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by Anonobread on Monday March 28, 2016 @02:43AM (#11373041)
Users don't control cloud software.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by natrius on Monday March 28, 2016 @02:48AM (#11373056)
Rules in blockchain-based software cannot change ex post facto. The only decision involved is the user's choice to use the application in the first place. These are user-controlled applications.

(I've tried explaining these as applications that no one controls, but that has a wild west connotation that isn't applicable.)

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by arthur_pryor on Monday March 28, 2016 @08:27PM (#11378648)
"I've tried explaining these as applications that no one controls, but that has a wild west connotation that isn't applicable."

it's also a statement that's simply not true. the parties that usually control financial and legal systems might not control it. it might be the case that no single person or single organization controls it. but to say that "no one controls" it is false. there are people whose input controls it. if that were not the case, it would not be useful.

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by Anonobread on Monday March 28, 2016 @02:55AM (#11373074)
My point is running all the nodes in the cloud means that the users of those nodes don't own them.

> the user's choice to use the application in the first place.

Right, but if none of the users can even run the so called "peer-to-peer" component, what's the difference between that and run-of-the-mill centralized DB software? Either way nobody but the chosen few can directly access the DB.

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by natrius on Monday March 28, 2016 @03:06AM (#11373093)
With blockchains, only the user has write access to the database with their cryptographic identity. Users are in full control.

Users can run a node of the peer-to-peer component if they want. Anyone can. They just don't have to.

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by Anonobread on Monday March 28, 2016 @03:14AM (#11373104)
> With blockchains, only the user has write access to the database with their cryptographic identity. Users are in full control.

That trait is far from being unique to blockchains.

But no, users aren't in full control of cloud software.

> Users can run a node of the peer-to-peer component if they want. Anyone can. They just don't have to.

After 18 months of block size debate, this is deja vu. No, anyone can't run a node if you make it cost $5k/mo

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by nix_said on Monday March 28, 2016 @10:48AM (#11374549)
You are clearly talking to an Ethereum investor and not a programmer. A large part of the Ethereum hype is using blockchains where they are woefully the wrong tool for the job.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by natrius on Monday March 28, 2016 @11:46AM (#11374922)
Haha, you didn't even take the effort to look at my profile. I write code. Like many Ethereum developers, I own ether. My comments apply to any EVM-based blockchain, and there will be many.
Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by throwaway859360 on Monday March 28, 2016 @03:40AM (#11373150)
In computer security I've often heard the saying there is no security without physical security. This means if somebody can access the hardware running your program you can't trust the outcome. That's why you have to lock your servers away and trust the people who have the key.

Ethereum solves this problem by creating truly virtual machine that does not have physical location. If somebody wants to tamper with the execution there is no address to drive to or datacenter to cut power from. Even service providers themselves can prove that they have locked themselves out. Without ethereum you just have to take their word for it.

This all comes with caveats. Radical transparency, everyone can see your code and when it is running. Cost, you need to pay for every instruction to keep the system running and to prevent spamming. It's a shared resource, you need to wait for your turn and the computer is very slow.

Is there usecase for such contraption remains to be seen.

Re:New Kid on the Blockchain by brenfrow on Monday March 28, 2016 @12:33AM (#11372747)
The why is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23HnORQXvs Its meant to be a world computer. However currently every node runs every contract, so it can only be as fast as one node. They will fix this in the future. Remember we are only in the very beginning.