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Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by Gustomaximus on Thursday March 24, 2016 @01:56AM (#11350849)
I am curious about the downstream effects of house prices becoming increasing multiples of income in so many western countries. E.g. I suspect it will hit entrepreneurship. Younger generations are buying houses later and taking out massive loans when they do. For the boomers you'd often hear how they bought a house soon after college and paid it off by their early thirties. This would put people in a good place to leave their work for a couple of years to start a business. Now people have these huge mortgages where your ability to start a business is hampered by your ability to get a financial buffer to take a year or 2 off. And lets not forget most businesses are created form people mid-career, not the TV typical university dropout.

And small community business, how will they exist in the future. If someone wants to set up a local 'physical presence' vet/daycare type business that are typically mixed into residential areas the threshold is now so high ot exist and especially set up a new business. How can a daycare buy a million+ dollar house and expect to make money paying that back on having 30 local kids being looked after.

Also what is going to happen with retirement and periods of unemployment. I suspect society will be less stable as either the government has to foot high rent costs (unlikely) or we will see increased population movements during retirement, and now the government has to look after older people that before a family who lived nearby could help out with. And during low employment cycles society can absorb this downturn if people dont have large loans. Historically people cant 'tighten belts' for a year while things improve, harder when your neck deep in debt. So we will again see more movement of people, debt default etc. It will serve to exacerbate recessions etc.

Also these higher prices skew the economy. When people are tied up in these ever increasing loan/income ratios there will be less spending on dining, holidays, hobbies etc. It will weaken the economy by concentrating the spend in limited areas.

I believe we should look to ensure affordable housing for owner occupiers. Residential investment need to be discouraged (note I'm not saying stopped) as a speculative asset class. I've seen a few suggested methods to achieve this but I feel the simplest is to place a yearly 'asset tax' on non-owner occupied residential property (I would also include farms). Having a % tax would make it easy to adjust to find the right balance given economic cycles change. Also this would encourage property hoarders not in heavy debt to sell for lower taxed asset classes. This I feel is important as most solutions focus on controlling the investment lending side which is limiting in reach.

Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by wqnt on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:13AM (#11351117)
Micro-managing regulations that distort property market very often cause more problems than they solve, especially if they become unremovable. The root cause for rising property price is monetary loosing by central banks. Once you create that much money you can't control where it flows.
Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by esja on Thursday March 24, 2016 @05:03AM (#11351430)
Of course you can control where it flows, if you want to. Just one example: China doesn't allow Canadians to buy Chinese houses. I agree monetary tightening would help but it's a long way off. In the meantime Western governments are prioritising foreign speculators over their own citizens, at significant social cost.
Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by tostitos1979 on Thursday March 24, 2016 @10:31AM (#11353064)
I've also been thinking about the long-term effects of the current situation and I don't see anything good. All this QE and low rates have caused people to borrow like crazy. I'd say people are either max'ed out or near that after 5-8 years of "partying". Even people who tripled their home value are at the trough taking out HELOCs (home equity line of credit). A debt is a claim on future income. If most of my future income is already spent, who the heck is going to spend in the future? The young (demographics in most developed countries aren't too great)? The professionals have significant student loans. Maybe the young who got cheap educations, earning great salaries able to live in low cost of living areas?

I am surprised the baby boomers aren't downsizing in droves at this point. They should be the ones getting out of homes, locking in their gains and grabbing a condo where they don't have to spend too much effort doing maintenance. I suspect some are holding onto their homes for their children's sake?

Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by ghaff on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:07PM (#11354982)
>I am surprised the baby boomers aren't downsizing in droves at this point.

Based on people I know, I think a lot of it is that if you own a typical suburban/exurban house and you have the house like you want it, you like the location, you have friends in the area, etc., for many, it's just not worth the trouble/expense of moving even if they could potentially downsize. The exceptions that come to mind are a few people who wanted to move to a warmer climate and/or adopt an urban lifestyle with their kids out of the house.

Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by rconti on Thursday March 24, 2016 @12:35PM (#11354227)
Of note: At least in the US, baby boomers will start dying off.

What will happen to their houses? In some cases, they'll become their kids' residences. In other cases, their kids will now own TWO properties, and now they'll rent out the 2nd house, adding supply to the rental market. In still others, the reverse mortgage scumbags will own the property, and it'll add to the corporate-owned housing stock.

Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by markdown on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:03AM (#11350883)
> I suspect it will hit entrepreneurship.

I agree. Entrepreneurship will increasingly become the domain of the rich (or rather, the children of the rich).

Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by rconti on Thursday March 24, 2016 @12:33PM (#11354211)
It typically has been. You haven't always been able to build an app in a day or spin up a few AWS instances to handle increased load on your webapp. This is a relatively new thing.
Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by Kalium on Thursday March 24, 2016 @11:12AM (#11353391)
It is darkly amusing to me that land-use regulations purportedly designed to protect the poor and middle-class will wind up killing the prospects of their children. But that's what happens when you limit entrepreneurship to those who are already well-off.

It's tragic any way you slice it.

Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by diskcat on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:27AM (#11350962)
There aren't any small businesses anymore and for good reasons. The mom and pop shops are inefficient. They do not employ the highly efficient operational system that big businesses can employ so all your coffee shops are now starbucks or some other franchises.

>Also these higher prices skew the economy.

Pricing is how an economy works. It is the messaging system communicating changes in demand/supply balance. If it is 'skewing' the economy in the sense that it causes changes, then it is working as intended.

>When people are tied up in these ever increasing loan/income ratios

There is only so much land to go around so if you want to use a particular piece of land that is highly desirable then you ought to outbid everybody else.

>I believe we should look to ensure affordable housing for owner occupiers.

the solution to this is georgian land value tax. There is no reason otherwise to ensure 'afforable housing for owner occupiers' except your personal belief that society should subsidise a particular class of property ownership whereby the owners use the property directly. What is going to happen is that people who cant afford to own a house (or dont want to borrow money from banks to buy one) is going to have to pay the tax for renting.

Re:Chinese Buy One-Third of Vancouver Homes: National Bank E... by Gustomaximus on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:15AM (#11351125)
> Pricing is how an economy works. It is the messaging system communicating changes in demand/supply balance. If it is 'skewing' the economy in the sense that it causes changes, then it is working as intended.

Price is one tool. Government skew pricing via subsidies and other to business all the time. Imagine primary schools in a pure capitalist system. It would be a mess. There is loads of intervention all through the economy that overrides pure pricing so I dont buy into this view.

> There is only so much land to go around so if you want to use a particular piece of land that is highly desirable then you ought to outbid everybody else.

Land supply is fixed. But demand is variable. If you reduce investment incentive for this limited land pool, prices should reduce via less competition freeing personal capital for other spending.

> What is going to happen is that people who cant afford to own a house (or dont want to borrow money from banks to buy one) is going to have to pay the tax for renting.

Maybe... 1) there were studies in Australia when the gov removed tax breaks on investment property. Some people made a claim similar to you this cost would be passed on. Empirical results were the majority of regions (some exceptions of course) found little to no impact on rental price and this cost was absorbed into investment returns. And 2) Don't forget this action will reduce house prices, so those that do buy residential property for investment will require lower rental return as the initial house price is lower.