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Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by mikeash on Thursday March 17, 2016 @04:18PM (#11307255)
I do doubt his candid explanation was correct, because his statements include several things that are just factually wrong.

ULA faces a big threat from SpaceX right now. If SpaceX's reusability plans work out, if SpaceX can get their reliability up, and if SpaceX can work on their delays and start launching on time, ULA is going to be in a world of hurt. They had a long time as a sole-source launch provider for the government, and suddenly they're being undercut by a factor of five which could soon turn into a factor of ten or fifteen. Now, that's a lot of "ifs" up there, but ULA can't be complacent if they want to still exist in a decade or two.

If I was the CEO of ULA, I'd want my upper management to consist of people who understand this situation, who recognize the threat, who take it seriously, and who will work to keep ULA competitive as they go from having guaranteed business to needing to fight for every launch contract. And this fellow does not sound like he fits that description in the least.

Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by hackuser on Thursday March 17, 2016 @04:42PM (#11307428)
What did he say that was factually wrong? I think he said most of what you said and didn't contradict the rest. For example:

“Along came Elon Musk and changed the game completely…we can’t afford [to bid] any more because the price points are coming down as low as $60 million,” he said. “The best day you’ll see us bid at $125 million or twice that number. Add in the capabilities cost, it eclipses the $200 million. … So now we’re going to have to take and figure out how to bid these things much lower cost. The government can’t just say, you know, ULA’s got a great track record, they’ve done 100 launches.”

What are you referring to?

Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by mikeash on Thursday March 17, 2016 @05:20PM (#11307707)
He greatly overestimated the amount of fuel SpaceX needs to land a Falcon 9, and especially overestimated the amount of fuel needed for the SES-9 landing attempt. The implication that fuel even matters is pretty weird too; The fuel for a ~$60 million Falcon 9 launch costs about $200,000. He also says that SpaceX loses a quarter of a billion dollars per launch, which makes very little sense.

Really, the fuel thing sticks out at me. Maybe I'm making too big of a deal about it, but reuse is going to be very important, ULA is working on their own version of it (recovering just the engines, not the entire first stage), and he ought to know about it. Or if he doesn't, because details are for underlings, he ought to know what he doesn't know about it.

Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by hackuser on Thursday March 17, 2016 @05:55PM (#11307952)
> He greatly overestimated the amount of fuel SpaceX needs to land a Falcon 9, and especially overestimated the amount of fuel needed for the SES-9 landing attempt.

He made no estimate of that and didn't mention SES-9. What are you reading? Is that in the original audio recording because it's not in the article.

His criticism was that "it requires flying additional fuel to perform the landing", which I interpreted to be about weight and not fuel cost, and that ULA's plan is to parachute the rockets down, I assume to minimize that problem. Do you have information that contradicts him?

Where is this coming from? [Deleted last sentence]

Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by mikeash on Friday March 18, 2016 @09:17AM (#11311547)
Yes, it's from the original audio. "He carried 100,000 pounds of fuel after he deployed this last SES satellite...." Starts just after 22 minutes here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYhClj8zYcY

Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by mozumder on Friday March 18, 2016 @12:17AM (#11309856)
He's right about the rocket landing being a dumb idea. It takes about 15-20% extra fuel to do that, which is a lot in a first stage.
Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by mikeash on Friday March 18, 2016 @09:23AM (#11311582)
Why does 15-20% (and it's more like 5-10%) make it dumb?

What matters is how much you can put into orbit. RTLS hits you with a 30% payload penalty, a normal barge landing is about a 15% penalty, and a crazy hail-Mary attempt like SES-9 is somewhat less.

If your payload is under that threshold then the only downside to it is the extra cost of fuel and support. Both are completely minimal. For example, SpaceX's next ISS supply mission has plenty of margin for an RTLS landing. A Dragon stuffed full of cargo still weighs less than what Falcon 9 can put into the ISS's orbit and land back at the launch site afterwards. For a little bit of extra fuel, you can potentially save a rocket stage worth tens of millions. That doesn't sound dump to me.

For those few payloads that can't tolerate that penalty, they can fly the rocket expendable. It's still one of the cheapest out there even if they don't recover it. Or they can fly it on Falcon Heavy, which if recovered is cheaper than an expandable Falcon 9.

The only big unknown right now is the cost of refurbishing a recovered first stage so it can be ready for another launch. That's what made the Space Shuttle cost so much more than it was supposed to. It sounds good so far, but until they're doing this on a regular basis we can't know for sure.

Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by TrevorJ on Friday March 18, 2016 @12:17PM (#11312754)
Total fuel cost on that rocket is around 200k. The stage costs something like 14 million. Given those number's I'd say it is a great idea.
Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by AndyNemmity on Thursday March 17, 2016 @04:24PM (#11307316)
He may be factually wrong, but it is his honest view of the situation.

If you take any company, and ask all of the VPs about their candid take about the tactics of their current situation, you will get a tremendous amount of variety on their perceived views of the situation.

As to if that aligns with the CEO's vision, I don't know. And his firing is not an indication either way, because he would be fired regardless for his indiscretion.

If you believe he is factually incorrect in the specifics of his analysis, I don't doubt you, and I'm not defending it.

Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by jack9 on Thursday March 17, 2016 @04:44PM (#11307445)
I do doubt the random HN poster over someone who definitely worked in the industry daily and was privy to more information. mike seems to have a bug in his butt about how "factual" it is, like the candid precept ensures it's all based in reality.
Re:Recording of aerospace executive's speech leads to his re... by AndyNemmity on Thursday March 17, 2016 @04:55PM (#11307537)
Sure. I think what I meant to say is, this isn't my area of expertise and I don't have the information available to judge what is correct or not. I am discussing the concepts on a broader level.