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Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by api on Wednesday February 24, 2016 @05:43PM (#11170846)
The EmDrive is actually less physically plausible than the E-Cat if you get into it, since reactionless propulsion is identical to perpetual motion and/or infinite energy. Someone had a nice explanation of this over on Reddit but I don't have a link handy. Basically if momentum is not conserved then you can build kinetic energy without bound on finite power or something like that. The only way the EmDrive could work is if either (a) we are really wrong about some fundamental stuff, or (b) it's not actually reactionless but is pushing against something "exotic" like dark matter or dark energy.

E-Cat or anything like it (LENR) would mean new nuclear physics -- some way of bypassing the Coulomb barrier at low energies via some novel probably quantum mechanism. But fundamentally it's not violating anything as foundational as a conservation law. We know the energy is there via E=mc^2 and all. We just don't currently know of any way to get at that energy at sub-plasma temperatures and pressures (and for the proposed fusion reaction in the E-Cat, by no known physical means). LENR would require new physics but would not break existing physics.

I do recall reading some interesting stuff about how some of the gas giant planets seem a bit warmer than they should be, and that if LENR were a thing it would provide a possible explanation for some anomalous heating observed in astronomical observations.

Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by wcoenen on Wednesday February 24, 2016 @06:18PM (#11171039)
> Someone had a nice explanation of this over on Reddit but I don't have a link handy. Basically if momentum is not conserved then you can build kinetic energy without bound on finite power or something like that.

Are you referring to this reddit comment by myself?

https://reddit.com/r/spaceflight/comments/34ay1c/nasa_resear...

Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by mrfusion on Wednesday February 24, 2016 @07:46PM (#11171558)
What you say is true but I don't see why people make assumption 1. Does anomalous thrust tell you it can accelerate linearly to power?
Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by wcoenen on Thursday February 25, 2016 @07:00PM (#11178869)
The thrust doesn't need to be a linear function of input power for this argument to work. As long as you can get some constant thrust for some constant power input, kinetic energy will eventually exceed the energy put into the system.
Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by mrfusion on Thursday February 25, 2016 @09:38PM (#11179501)
True. But how do we know thrust doesn't go down as velocity increases? I feel like we don't have that information yet.
Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by wcoenen on Friday February 26, 2016 @06:07AM (#11180834)
Maybe, but velocity is relative. So that would mean that the drive is pushing against something which has its own rest frame, relative to which velocity can be measured.

It's not clear what that rest frame would be. Virtual particles in the quantum vacuum are often mentioned together with the emDrive, but those particles are thought to be frameless.

I'll admit that it's not entirely implausible to have a special rest frame like that. We already know that the cosmic microwave background has a rest frame, and this is something that you would start to feel in the form of frontal radiation pressure as you gain speed relative to the CMB.

Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by guscost on Wednesday February 24, 2016 @05:53PM (#11170906)
Awesome, thanks for the info. While I wouldn't be that surprised if the EmDrive works by undiscovered spooky action at a distance, if it works by violating conservation of momentum that would be bonkers.
Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by aetherson on Thursday February 25, 2016 @12:32AM (#11172575)
Undiscovered spooky action at a distance to what? Even assuming you can shuttle momentum around from particle A to particle C that is substantially distant, what exactly are particles C? Does the EM drive choose the distant particles to transfer momentum to on the basis of what would be the most convenient for the experimenter? What is the mechanism by which putting microwaves in a funny-shaped container creates a momentum-transfering bond from that container to unknown other masses? Does this totally unexplained effect have, you know, a range? If so, is that range remotely realistic? If so, we don't actually have a reaction-mass-less drive, do we?

For bonus points, answer all these questions in ways that do not create a privileged frame of reference and thus break special relativity.

Re:The E-Cat has been replicated? by guscost on Thursday February 25, 2016 @08:27AM (#11174214)
I think I'll wait for more conclusive results before starting work on these questions ;)