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Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by gnaritas on Monday February 22, 2016 @07:52PM (#11155612)
The only time you're actually investing in the company is when they IPO. That's what the market is primarily for, getting capital to companies that need it; after that however, the market also has to allow people to trade those shares with speculators otherwise there's no way to exit your investment. This secondary market is the other function of the market (what you just called investing in the flow of money in and out of a position). Both are necessary. Traders have always played the short term ups and downs, that's what makes them traders rather than investors and without them, there wouldn't be liquidity to exit your positions.
Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by kasey_junk on Monday February 22, 2016 @08:59PM (#11155901)
> that's what the market is primarily for, getting capital to companies that need it;

Personally, I believe that is incorrect. The amount of market activity related to getting capital to companies is dwarfed by other activity. As data points:

- Commodities markets don't allocate capital to companies (or farmers or whatever) at all.

- Most new stock sales (IPO or otherwise) happen outside of the public markets first, and are allocated to a minority of the market participants.

I think a much better way to think of the markets is as primarily about pricing risk. That this risk assessment function happens to provide a good way to allocate capital to companies is a by product.

Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by gnaritas on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @02:04AM (#11157118)
You should perhaps read more than the first two sentences before replying.

> This secondary market is the other function of the market (what you just called investing in the flow of money in and out of a position). Both are necessary.

I clearly addressed that markets have more than one function.

Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by kasey_junk on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @07:23AM (#11158342)
I was reacting to the word primary. I think that is a common (especially on HN) misconception. The markets make more sense when you don't think of them as mechanisms to fund companies, and do think of them as ways to trade risk and liquidity.

I'm not convinced that the capital allocation component of the markets is even as you say "necessary". You could easily envision the markets chugging along fine without allowing any direct sale of equity to the markets. That is some intermediary would be required to buy the equity from the company as it became available and in turn could then sell that equity into the markets. We are almost to that point already.

Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by dragonwriter on Monday February 22, 2016 @07:56PM (#11155627)
> The only time you're actually investing in the company is when they IPO.

Well, no, anytime the company is selling shares you can invest in the company rather than the secondary market. The IPO is obviously the first such event, but it isn't necessarily the only such event.

Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by eru on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @03:47AM (#11157464)
Also, if there was no secondary market, people would be much less likely to buy at IPO and other times the company sells shares.
Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by gnaritas on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @10:47AM (#11159649)
Right, but I did mention that.
Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by gnaritas on Tuesday February 23, 2016 @02:03AM (#11157115)
Fair point, and true.
Re:A New Breed of Trader on Wall Street: Coders with a Ph.D by Ericson2314 on Monday February 22, 2016 @09:19PM (#11155994)
> after that however, the market also has to allow people to trade those shares with speculators otherwise there's no way to exit your investment

You are forgetting about dividends.