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Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by bmelton on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:34PM (#11129894)
I disagree 1) that they are, and 2) that they oughtn't be allowed to be for what you're intending.

On 1) They aren't persons, but do have a limited degree of personhood. Among other things, that personhood is what allows us to sue them and such.

On 2) I don't have a problem with it. If companies have to abide the law, then I can't imagine how it would be that they shouldn't have input into its making.

I agree that corporate influence is a real problem, but would personally suggest that limiting the scope of influence available to lawmakers is a better alternative to fixing the problem than limiting people (who form corporations) of their first amendment rights.

That said, this debate is getting into the 'purely political' territory, and is probably not a great fit for an HN discussion.

Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by yequalsx on Thursday February 18, 2016 @06:16PM (#11130165)
Children have to abide by the law but don't have input into its making. Thus I think your rationale on 2 is not sufficient. I'm against corporations from making campaign contributions because the money GE, for instance, has far outweighs what millions of actual people have and the decision to spend GE's money is in the hands of very few people. Those people who do have the power to spend GE's money on campaigns are themselves very wealthy people and already have a disproportionate amounts of influence on campaigns.
Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by zbyte64 on Thursday February 18, 2016 @06:02PM (#11130081)
> better alternative to fixing the problem than limiting people (who form corporations) of their first amendment rights.

That's the crux of the problem though. People who form corporations are granted free speech abilities that are beyond the means of everyone else. Those that own a corporation have no legal limit on the amount of cash they can lend to a political cause while those who do not have their allowed contribution amount capped.

Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by 13thLetter on Friday February 19, 2016 @04:06PM (#11136622)
> People who form corporations are granted free speech abilities that are beyond the means of everyone else.

Corporations such as -- to pick an example completely at random -- the New York Times?

One of the many, many problems with advocating limiting corporate speech is that virtually everything larger than complaining on a blog or tacking a sign to an electrical pole is done by a corporate organization. If the New York Times can say what it pleases using its vast financial resources and nationwide distribution networks, it's very hard to argue coherently that, say, General Electric can't.

Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by specialist on Thursday February 18, 2016 @06:22PM (#11130199)
personally suggest that limiting the scope of influence available to lawmakers

What are you suggesting here? Increased direct democracy? Less lobbying, presumably thru regulation, thereby curtailing speech?

Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by bmelton on Thursday February 18, 2016 @07:01PM (#11130457)
I have first-hand experience dealing with Michael Chertoff. You may not know the name, but he's been a SCOTUS clerk, federal prosecutor, Assistant U.S. Attorney General, NSA Director, and Secretary of Homeland Security.

He was also chairman of BAE systems, The Chertoff Group, and other defense-oriented businesses. BAE is D.C.'s 8th largest contractor.

Chertoff was instrumental in mandating the FAA's adoption of body scanners for security in his capacity as a public official.

As a private citizen, The Chertoff Group represents lobbying efforts for security product companies and manufacturers.

Airports may or may not need body scanners. I think that the general HN audience is more familiar with Schneier's work enough to know of the 'security theater' that they represent, but even allowing for the possibility that they actually do some good, it seems absolutely absurd to me that the director of the NSA or the Secretary of Homeland Security has the power to mandate their purchase and installation with one hand, while selling them to the government with the other.

Assuredly this is neither the most or least egregious example of federal corruption, but I think it's the most illustrative. To me, the federal government has only the powers enumerated in the constitution. Mandating security devices isn't one of those powers, but the federal government has claimed it in its purview.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the federal government trying to keep us safe, if that's what they're doing, and I certainly don't mean to besmirch Chertoff as the archetype of corruption -- he may very well have the best possible intent... but at the same time, it would be silly of me, as president, to insist that only the software company I owned could possibly manufacture secure-enough solutions for the government and mandate their usage as vendor.

Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by monocasa on Thursday February 18, 2016 @07:16PM (#11130510)
I guess I fail to see how allowing corporations to pay for large parts of politicians' campaigns achieves the goals you're implicitly stating here.
Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by bmelton on Thursday February 18, 2016 @07:26PM (#11130562)
If you don't allow the government to make mandates, then there's very little purpose in lobbying them. People tend to believe that regulations are imposed to keep big businesses in check, but many if not most business regulations are lobbied for by the big businesses to impose hurdles to would-be competitors.

This isn't to suggest that all regulations are bad, mind you, but cui bono; wherever there exists a regulation, someone benefits from it. Sometimes it is legitimately the people who are customers / consumers of that business, but often it exists as the result of a mandated competitive advantage... and anecdotally speaking, the more expensive compliance is, the more likely that is to be the case.

Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by specialist on Thursday February 18, 2016 @09:49PM (#11131211)
Struggling to keep up...

Your solution to regulatory capture is to abolish government appropriations? Consumers, erm citizens, would then get essential services from corporations directly, mooting the need for governments?

I think I've seen that movie.

PS- Sorry about your Chertoff. Talking about it is an important part of the recovery process.

Re:Bernie’s Army of Coders by pasquinelli on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:57PM (#11130057)
a corporation isn't a democratic institution, so the wealth that's generated by all the people in that corporation is only available for use by the owners of that corporation. the money everyone generates only amplifies the voice of those people that own the corporation. if a corporation is a democratic institution, with equal influence and participation of all members of it, then i agree there's no problem. that isn't the case for most corporations.