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Re:A Message to Our Customers by sandworm101 on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @03:14PM (#11120913)
>>> I am really glad that one of the most valuable companies in the world is drawing a bright line in the sand. So I really support Tim's position on this one.

Tim's position today might not be apple's position tomorrow. Apple is a large publicly traded company. They owe a duty only to shareholders. Fighting this fight will probably impact the bottom line. Tim's continuation may turn on the outcome.

Cooperation may see Apple hurt. The perception of cooperation was part of RIM's fall from grace. Non-cooperation may also cause issues. Through it's various agencies, the US government is Apple's largest customer, as it is Microsoft's. Large contracts might be on the line should Apple not play ball. Either way, this order has probably wounded Apple.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by Jtsummers on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @03:44PM (#11121205)
> the US government is Apple's largest customer

I'm having trouble finding numbers, but I seriously doubt this. The reason that's true (or more likely true) for Microsoft, is Windows. The US gov't has massive site licenses for Windows and most of MS's software portfolio. Apple is used where in the US government? Some cell phones? A few public affairs offices that convinced their purchasing officer to buy a Mac Pro for video editing? Maybe some labs that wanted a unixy OS and, again, convinced their purchasing officer to buy a Mac Pro?

Per: http://investor.apple.com/secfiling.cfm?filingid=1193125-14-...

The bulk of Apple's revenue comes from outside the US. Perhaps the US government is their largest single customer (I still hold this is a dubious claim), but it is not essential to their continued existence. They would do just fine without those sales.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by mturmon on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @04:52PM (#11121735)
I agree with your general point (which I take to be, Apple is not seriously threatened by loss of sales to the US Government).

But remember, iPhones and MacBooks are quite popular everywhere, including US government procurements (e.g., https://37prime.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/nasa-mars-science-l...).

Re:A Message to Our Customers by Jtsummers on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @05:53PM (#11122211)
My experience is primarily DoD, which is the bulk of the government's spending on this sort of thing. For enterprise spending, Apple doesn't get much love, outside a general trend towards iPhones for "company" phones, but even that's rare, with people using their own phones instead of being issued one a lot of the time (they can get their plans paid for or subsidized if the phone is a requirement of the job). Labs often end up outside a lot of the enterprise type procurements and so have a bit more leeway in that regard, but while they spend a lot of money, it's still a drop in the bucket for Apple.
Re:A Message to Our Customers by mturmon on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @06:03PM (#11122277)
I do agree with your general point.

Your characterization ("Maybe some labs that wanted a unixy OS and, again, convinced their purchasing officer to buy a Mac Pro?") is a little off -- where I work, MBP's for laptop replenishments are treated exactly the same way as Windows systems, you just tick a different button on the order form.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by aback on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @06:23PM (#11122390)
Fighting will probably impact the bottom line.

As in, improve it.

Tim Cook is probably more popular than Obama (and surely is WRT this issue.) Apple is about a thousand times more popular than the NSA and blessed with almost infinitely deep pockets and a very, very good marketing team.

Not to mention the fact that most of the people who use computers and phones don't even live in the USA.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by r00fus on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @11:00PM (#11123637)
Unfortunately, the NSA/FBI likely have far more money than Apple, and if Apple spends too much, their shareholders can demand that leadership backs down.

Tim Cook is responsible to his BoD and shareholders.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by dahauns on Friday February 19, 2016 @07:03AM (#11133010)
The NSA has an annual budget of ~10B, the FBI even less.

In comparison, Apple had a net income of ~50B in 2015.

Let that sink in for a moment.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by specialist on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @09:34PM (#11123278)
They owe a duty only to shareholders.

Because Freedom Markets(tm), booyah!

Society can bumble along just fine without corporations. Corporations serve society.

Take away society, with its culture, laws, rules, regulations, courts, people, economy, markets, capital, etc, there can be no corporations.

The Shareholder Fallacy http://www.salon.com/2012/04/04/the_shareholder_fallacy/

Historically, corporations were understood to be responsible to a complex web of constituencies, including employees, communities, society at large, suppliers and shareholders. But in the era of deregulation, the interests of shareholders began to trump all the others. How can we get corporations to recognize their responsibilities beyond this narrow focus? It begins in remembering that the philosophy of putting shareholder profits over all else is a matter of ideology which is not grounded in American law or tradition. In fact, it is no more than a dangerous fad.

The Myth of Profit Maximizing

“It is literally – literally – malfeasance for a corporation not to do everything it legally can to maximize its profits. That’s a corporation’s duty to its shareholders.”

Since this sentiment is so familiar, it may come as a surprise that it is factually incorrect: In reality, there is nothing in any U.S. statute, federal or state, that requires corporations to maximize their profits. More surprising still is that, in this instance, the untruth was not uttered as propaganda by a corporate lobbyist but presented as a fact of life by one of the leading lights of the Democratic Party’s progressive wing, Sen. Al Franken. Considering its source, Franken’s statement says less about the nature of a U.S. business corporation’s legal obligations – about which it simply misses the boat – than it does about the point to which laissez-faire ideology has wormed its way into the American mind.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by sandworm101 on Thursday February 18, 2016 @01:11AM (#11124010)
>>In reality, there is nothing in any U.S. statute, federal or state, that requires corporations to maximize their profits.

Laws and statutes don't enforce contracts. But courts do. You are trumpeting a theory I've heard many times before. It's creators lack a basic understanding of contract law or corporate organization. :ookup "shareholder derivative actions".

Re:A Message to Our Customers by Guvante on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @03:21PM (#11120977)
> Large contracts might be on the line should Apple not play ball.

That almost certainly isn't the case. It is doubtful whether any other government organization cares about how they handle this case. Heck the FBI likely doesn't care as long as Apple doesn't do anything illegal.

Re:A Message to Our Customers by sdenton4 on Wednesday February 17, 2016 @06:56PM (#11122586)
Lots of places OUTSIDE the US will care, though. This is exactly the sort of $hite that is causing European companies and governments to avoid dependencies on US providers: there's no way to garauntee freedom from US government surveillance.