You contradict yourself.
Obviously you have a problem with capitalism because you beleive people should be forced at gunpoint to live the way you prefer.
This is because you value "paper and numbers" more than people.
Your idolizing of hunter gatherer societies is the kind of pseudo-science that has always been used to sell socialism.
Feel free to quit your job and go find food yourself. In alaska you are free to hunt to feed your family-- subsistence is prtected there (and its a good thing... nothing worse for the environment than environmentalists anyway.)
You talk about "Seeing things at a human level" but your idea of the "human level" is sticking a gun in someones face.
I never equated open source software wiht development at gunpoint-- so of course you had to say I did to try and make me out as crazy. People who voluntarily open source their software are Capitalists -- they are profiting (exploiting in your parlance) the works of thousands who decide to contribute to their open source software.
No, the violence ocmes in when you insist that companies must be restrained and people must be restrained from freely trading for each toher.
becauss of your pretend care for their spirit "So the customers save money, yes, but they lose out in so many other ways."
When you force walmart to stay out of your town-- you are using a gun to deny poor people the ability to feed themselves.
You, my freind, are a socialist. The spew of your post is pure socialist drivel. Its nonsense... and as long as socialists like you continue to spout hateful anti-human nonsense like that, I'll be asking the questiosn you can't answer.
Like:
Why not let people live in peace? Why do you insist on using violence to force people to live according to your (ignorant) ideas?
The one thing i can say though, is that I've taken plenty of courses on politics, and i know from your comments that you're just a tool who's so afraid of "socialist views" that you'll stamp down people who bring up valid points to your own. Oh, and before you start typing out a response, I'm not a socialist.
Capitalism is a great thing, it allows free enterprise and strengthens a society. people no longer have to work outside farming for 14 hours a day, they have the opportunity to work in a job and buy their food and other supplies; they have much more choice than our ancestors in the past (although one could argue from a philosophical point if this is truly makes them happy, but i'll save that for another rant). In short, people are not obligated to any one position or limit and can choose to do anything at all, since all jobs give money, or some equal form of payment.
But capitalism also gives people in a better position the ability to take advantage of others; since people are no longer self-sufficient and rely on money to accomodate their needs, it gives other people the ability to exploit these people (often with fear tactics or conformity) and make them think "they really need this new 2006 model with 8 cup holders and all-wheel drive," or that "the world is dangerous and a rapist could be just around the corner, so buy a gun to protect yourselves from those rap music-listening-hoodlums." this is present in our society, and you can see it in most advertising.
socialism attempts to protect people from themselves by making everyone equal, and instead of people providing for themselves, the government does. all in all the debate can continue in another discussion as to which one is superior.
i dont necessarily agree with brandon's comments about walmart being evil, because they don't MAKE you go there, and they don't try to convince you. you really don't have to go to walmart if you don't have to, its that simple.
at the same time, bitgeek, your incoherent babbling seems to point every problem with our society in the hands of socialists, and that people in a free society can't be evil, but provide a necessary service (which some do and some don't). its utterly stupid and ignorant, so please find a time machine and go to the 1950's where you belong
thats all. i know this has nothing to do with MS dieing or anything, just thought i'd stamp out another idiot's rambling today.
I'm not a philosopher nor a politician but the way you talk answers one of the unsolved questions I asked myself while reading some historical books: are there still people like that?????
And there you are.....
You speak of corporations bringing happiness to people, but I would like to point out something that I heard a month or so ago. It used to be that people had necessities and very basic desires which were fulfilled by entrepreneurs (merchants and guildworkers) in a capitalist system. In the present-day US and several other countries, however, that is no longer the case. Companies used to be in the business of manufacturing goods to fulfill needs. Nowadays, they instead manufacture needs to sell goods. Why do you think advertising is such a huge industry?
It's all kind of funny when you consider the cycle. The current corporate structure relies on a large amount of drone workers doing the majority of the work for a small cut of the pay. The only way to make these workers do this work that no one in their right mind would do willingly is to pay them. Why do they need that money? To buy the very things that these corporations are telling them that they need to be buying. It's all a crazy, vicious cycle, and I'm afraid that it is the inevitable result of long-term capitalist societies. Do you see anything changing for the better in these regards?
In an Anthropology class a few years ago, we talked about studies that some researchers had done in comparing the lives of people in developed countries to hunter-gatherer tribes in South America and Africa. The people in these tribes typically spent 2-3 hours a day to provide their food and shelter, and the rest of the time was spent chatting, telling stories, singing, dancing, sporting, and other tribal activities. I would argue that that is happiness, not going to work 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week so that I can get a new car that gets me to work more comfortably.
To compare Open Source software to development at gunpoint is absurd. If I have an interesting idea for a piece of software that I would like to write, I am going to write the software and be very happy to share it with the open source community. This has nothing to do with violence; I have enjoyed the benefits of a completely free computing system with extensive functionality, and I am quite happy to return the favor. This is known as a gift society, not violent, immoral ideologies.
And this money-for-happiness equation that you are promoting looks a lot like pie in the sky. I worked for 2 years for a small grocer in a country gas station / food mart. The store had been in his family for something like 40 years, and he served a valuable need to the surrounding community in providing the only gas and groceries for 20 miles around. He and his wife worked long days and were by no means rich, but they made enough to live on. His regular customers knew him by name, and he was a regular bidder at the 4-H auctions every summer. Clearly, in this case, the exchange of money for goods is happy for everyone. Unfortunately, cutthroat companies like Wal-Mart move into town who have no concern for the well-being of the community, doing things like storing materials in parking lots which poison water supplies during rain, avoiding a golf cart security guard in their parking lot even though it has proven to reduce crime to 0%, relying on federal programs to cover worker health benefits, and driving all local businesses out and then moving out when the profit margins are no longer good. So the customers save money, yes, but they lose out in so many other ways. This is the problem with faceless corporations who do not see things at a human level.
In summary, my problem is not with capitalism, and I am not a socialist. I merely fear that the inevitable end of capitalism is the type of corporate society that has been steadily evolving in the U.S. and elsewhere, one in which paper and numbers are more important than people.