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Re:Vanguard's Low Blow by mirimir on Friday February 12, 2016 @04:20AM (#11086092)
It makes no sense to me either.

Forgone fees go to the fund's investers, who are also its owners. And capital gains by investers are taxed, just as they are for other funds. Maybe they're taxed at lower rates than profits of other funds are taxed. But that's just because the fund manager is a not-for-profit.

Right?

Re:Vanguard's Low Blow by zrail on Friday February 12, 2016 @08:00AM (#11086867)
That's the crux of the issue. Vanguard Group presents itself as offering it's services at cost, when in fact it's a for-profit company. As a for-profit company, according the laws that stand today and if you believe the claims of the plaintiff, it has to offer it's services at a competitive market rate.

Of course, that doesn't mean it can't rebate the profit back to the funds which could then apply it as a fee rebate. That should be totally legal, as long as it pays taxes on the profit before it issues the rebate.

This whole territory has been explored before, by the way. Mutual insurance companies used to have this same problem, and eventually Congress just added another carveout to 501(c) and made the problem go away. That's the other alternative here, and it's definitely cleaner and probably better for society as a whole.

Re:Vanguard's Low Blow by pc86 on Friday February 12, 2016 @09:44AM (#11087481)
> it has to offer it's services at a competitive market rate.

It's asset-weighted fees are approximately 1/6 of its competition. That seems pretty competitive to me.

Less bombastically, who decides what a competitive fee is? If they charged 1/2 market rate would this suit have ever been filed?

If they were operating at a loss I think it'd be pretty easy to claim they were avoiding taxes and should be operating at break even. But they are operating at break even, so I think it's hard to make the argument that they should be charging more "just because other firms do" and not come off as just some opportunist trying to cash in on a whistle-blower payout.

Re:Vanguard's Low Blow by morgante on Friday February 12, 2016 @06:17AM (#11086496)
It's complicated by the fact that a non-negligible portion of the funds are held in retirement accounts where potentially no taxes are paid on the returns.
Re:Vanguard's Low Blow by mirimir on Friday February 12, 2016 @06:21AM (#11086511)
Fair enough. But that's why some investors prefer not-for-profit funds, no? There's nothing underhanded going on.
Re:Vanguard's Low Blow by morgante on Friday February 12, 2016 @06:23AM (#11086518)
I agree that there's nothing underhanded going on and Vanguard offering lower fees is a net benefit to society.

That being said, I sort of see how a legalistic argument could be made.

Re:Vanguard's Low Blow by mirimir on Friday February 12, 2016 @06:42AM (#11086576)
It is true that most (maybe virtually all) not-for-profits serve the general public, more or less, and not just their owners.