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Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by anotherhacker on Monday February 01, 2016 @05:11PM (#11015972)
Lavish parties send the wrong message to employees. If I were CEO I'd say:

"No more parties. We're going to use the to retrain employees (instead of firing them) and avoid layoffs."

Mayer is turing out to be a terrible CEO.

This article describes the various multi-million dollar parties.

http://www.businessinsider.com/yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayer-blows...

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by henrikschroder on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:04PM (#11016362)
That's not how it works. That's a terrible suggestion.

If you cut perks, your best and brightest will leave much quicker, the elves leave middle earth. And then your company is essentially screwed, because you'll lose all of your key personnel. And you won't save very much money. This is the way of the bean-counters who know nothing of human motivation and morale. $1000 per employee is less than a percentage of their yearly salary.

If you instead decimate the company, many who survive the culling will be thankful to the company that they are keeping their job, and you'll actually save ~10% in salary costs and future obligations.

(The clever employees who see this coming will leave way before either scenario anyway)

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by brianwawok on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:39PM (#11017344)
I don't think decimate is the correct term for cutting the lower 10‰ :). A true decimation would be 10% at random to inspire fear in all.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by 0uasidjkas on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:02PM (#11016700)
This is correct. When belts start noticeably tightening, I'm out the door (or soon to be). Companies know this, so it's typically business as usual before dropping the bomb.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by HelloNurse on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @09:52AM (#11019703)
If I were a "survivor", I would still rush to find a job elsewhere ASAP, while I'm still competing with the early round of layoffs (mostly below average) rather than with everybody else (the "best and brightest"). What's the point of waiting until the situation gets worse?
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by anotherhacker on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:24PM (#11016498)
I don't believe that the "best and brightest" consider lavish parties as a deciding factor in where they work.

Notice how I phrased it. It's not cost cutting. It's about investing in employees. That is something the "best and the brightest" love.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by TallGuyShort on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:49PM (#11017186)
I consider myself good and bright, but I won't claim superlatives. My take? I don't care about lavish parties. But if I noticed my company going out of it's way to be cheap, there's a problem. I don't nitpick on my business expenses or my billable hours. I get my job done and I do it well, and I expect to be treated like a grown up and compensated fairly. If the company throws a party but has a complex rule about who can and cannot bring a +1 or they obviously didn't want to spend money on a party but felt obligated to go through the formalities, then the relationship has become asymmetrical and I'd rather go elsewhere than start getting picky myself.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by henrikschroder on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:46PM (#11016624)
No, the "best and brightest" at a company are interested in the company investing in them at the expense of the dead weight.

They are also not very interested in training, because they don't need it. They want to work on cutting-edge projects.

"Training" is something that the poor performers are going to flock to, because it benefits them. Which is the polar opposite of what the top performers want.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by anotherhacker on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @11:31AM (#11020427)
I believe your distorting my original point, pouring your own prejudices into what I said, or I didn't explain myself very well. (Probably the last one)

Instead, I'll just point you to Deming's work on management. He transformed Japan's post war economy into the powerhouse it is today. He's also responsible for the much of the transformation here in the USA during the 1980'ss & 90's.

Long story short: it's the goal of management to make workers successful. Re-training is the absolute best way of advancing the company.

https://www.deming.org/theman/theories/fourteenpoints

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by henrikschroder on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:35PM (#11021850)
I think you explained yourself very well, you said that the company should cut perks and put the money into re-training employees to avoid layoffs.

Cutting perks will gut the company morale.

Re-training on the job is already available at most SV companies of this size. You want it, you get it.

The original article that called out the lavish party was explicitly doing so to paint Marissa as a CEO that spends frivolously, and the author wanted her to move that money from employees to the investors instead.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by 0uasidjkas on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:14PM (#11016761)
I don't think it's fair to say that it's the polar opposite of what they want, or to imply that all top performers feel the same way. Even the most talented junior developers could use some training, and if done properly it saves me time doing ad-hoc training/mentoring. A company's willingness to invest in its employees via training in particular is a positive indicator for me. Obviously this doesn't apply to early-stage startups and such.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by bunderbunder on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:54PM (#11017396)
One could argue that talented junior developers aren't the "best and brightest." They may be very good and bright, but the fact that they're junior means that they're less expensive to replace, and losing them has a smaller impact on your ability to innovate.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by carlosonunez on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @08:27AM (#11019272)
> "Training" is something that the poor performers are going to flock to, because it benefits them. Which is the polar opposite of what the top performers want.

I wouldn't be so sure. I love a good conference. I don't care much for the content, but the networking opportunities are great. I mostly do trainings to build my "Rolodex;" I feel that this will only help me when I decide on starting my own business (I want to sell something that other businesses will use, and knowing someone inside of a business >>>> cold calling)

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by Someone1234 on Monday February 01, 2016 @05:45PM (#11016241)
That article is really damning. Makes it seem like she is going to cash out as Yahoo! goes down in flames around her. All she needs to do right now is keep it alive long enough to cash out all of her stock...

Someone remind me again why corporations pay their CEOs over 100m/year? And tell me about value, that's a huge chunk of change for someone in Yahoo!'s position, they could use that money to keep employees working.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by tptacek on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:23PM (#11016490)
First, I don't think Mayer makes over 100MM per year, or anything close to that.

Second, CEOs get paid lots of money because the market punishes firms that aren't growing and have no-name CEOs, and the cost of a name-brand CEO is probably more than cancelled out by avoiding that penalty. By the time Mayer was recruited, the market consensus was that Yahoo needed a turnaround CEO. There are no cheap turnaround CEOs for companies managing 4-5B in annual revenue.

Mayer's entire yearly salary is a rounding error compared to the total headcount cost of operating Yahoo, which is widely believed to be both tremendously overstaffed and larded with third-party contractor contracts.

Further, ask yourself: what exactly does it accomplish for Mayer to forego a salary in order to keep 1% (check my math, I might be way off) of Yahoo's workforce employed if that workforce isn't doing anything to improve Yahoo's outlook? Yahoo isn't a charity: everything it's employees do ostensibly have to have some hope of providing a return on investment.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by zipwitch on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:34AM (#11017785)
There is an inverse correlation between CEO pay and performance.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/06/17/3449737/ceo-pay-...

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by lazaroclapp on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:41AM (#11018095)
But, by summing your post and the GP, one can easily hypothesize that the causal relation goes the other way around: sinking companies hire expensive CEOs to try and save themselves. Often that doesn't succeed, because the company was sinking for reasons deeper than poor leadership.

The real question is: do success rates improve for sinking companies that hire a expensive CEO versus those that keep their existing leadership or hire no-name CEOs?

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by peyton on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:57AM (#11018145)
Is it possible that firms in trouble need to offer higher compensation to attract and retain CEOs?

I skimmed the paper and couldn't find a counter argument, but I didn't understand all the jargon.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by anotherhacker on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:28PM (#11016520)
The figure is based upon stock options and bonuses.

It's here in this picture:

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/566edfb272f2c150028...

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by tptacek on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:34PM (#11016552)
That's still not close to 100MM/yr and it's contingent, but look, we probably all agree that Yahoo's investors didn't get their money's worth on a marquee CEO.

It is, however, weird to me that everyone's so quick to blame Mayer for that. She didn't make up the game. The game stays the game. If it wasn't Mayer presiding over the decline of Yahoo --- probably still after acquiring Tumblr! --- it'd've been someone else.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by prostoalex on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:00PM (#11017231)
> we probably all agree that Yahoo's investors didn't get their money's worth on a marquee CEO

Disagree. If you bought YHOO in mid-2012 before Marissa joined, you'd have doubled your investment by now. I understand there's the option value of having invested in some better stocks, and YHOO's correlation to BABA, but one could still do a lot worse than doubling the investment.

https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&...

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by jazzyk on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:36PM (#11017515)
Yes, but she had nothing to do with the stock price rising (all due to BABA's rising value).

If someone offered me a shitload of money to run a sinking ship, I would have taken the job, just as she did. With this level of compensation, she's all set for life, does not need another job ever. But, with her connections and name recognition, she will have no trouble finding one - trust me. It is a systemic problem with boards of directors hiring incompetent (but well-known) executives who keep screwing up one company after another. All about connections.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by prostoalex on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:51PM (#11017544)
> she had nothing to do with the stock price rising (all due to BABA's rising value).

The decision to keep the BABA chunk versus spinning it off or distributing it to shareholders was CEO's decision, there were other interests at play urging other outcomes.

She still had a handle on the cost structure of the underlying business - expenses related to employee headcount, office leases, new project investments, outsourcing vs keeping things in-house - impacted the stock price to some extent, things could've been much worse.

I think she was set for life well before Yahoo! offer, and in light of recent developments with GOOG her Alphabet holdings might have appreciated at faster pace than her Yahoo! holdings.

Moreover, her decisions are not terribly out of line with her predecessors' decisions - Scott Thompson and Carol Bartz layed off, outsourced and cut expenses as well.

Could she have done a better job? Perhaps. Was she the absolute worst CEO Yahoo! could've landed? Probably not.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by LoSboccacc on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:52AM (#11017969)
Well I think back then she was the alternative for turning the company before it sank, but couldn't cut/steer fast enough

Columns from cringely paint a interesting, changing picture over the year http://www.cringely.com/tag/yahoo/page/2/

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by existencebox on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:41PM (#11016906)
I have a lot of disorganized thoughts on this issue. Please bear with me as I try to gather them together.

For the sake of exposition, let's say Mayer makes some $$MM/y, the exact number isn't really important to my point past a certain level, which she most certainly is.

What is she being paid that amount for? Let's explore each of the obvious options I see, and an expected common reaction (Had written logical, but that's not what I meant, since many common reactions are far from logical).

- To restore the company.

This clearly did not happen, if this was her job, she failed at it, and for most "normal people", getting paid that $$MM/y seems very off compared to what we might receive in such a failure.

- To as you say, preside over the decline. (age gracefully)

The argument I'll pose for the anti-Mayer sentiment in this case can be applied more broadly, but is most fitting here. One might expect this sort of role, in parity with firings, would include policies of waist tightening at all levels. I'm not even making a stance for or against these things in this argument, but the press about a slew of very exorbitant and very material benefits when paired beside firing of boots on the ground (again, not taking a stance, just observing the contrasting sentiments) give the _PERCEPTION_ of "let them eat cake", to put it glibly.

- To as you say as well earlier, be a face for the markets.

If we chose this explanation, realize the "figurehead effect" is a two way street. A famous CEO makes markets look positively on the company (is the thesis) regardless of the company, so if a company is doing badly, should not that emphasis also be on the CEO? It seems disingenuous that the CEO gets the credit for success but not for failure. I'm not saying this is logical, but it is consistent to placing significant value on a figurehead.

This last argument is the weakest, given that the markets probably take into account perceived CEO skills as part of "figurehead" status, but the BROADER market (sentiment of the people) likely can't inspect that deeply. So if the financial market loves kingmaking, the people get to see a king, and have their own expectations which do go both ways (in terms of lionizing success c.f. elon musk, and demonizing failure)

At the end of the day, each of these universes results in a very negative sentiment towards Mayer, thus my not being as surprised at that outcome.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by henrikschroder on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:43PM (#11017161)
Marissa was explicitly and publicly hired to turn around the company.

She's being paid to take the personal risk of career-ending failure. It's a way for her to hedge the bet she made that she could turn the company around.

This goes for all CEOs, the high salary is not compensation for labour, it's a risk premium the shareholders pay to get someone to take the job. For example, in many jurisdictions, the CEO is personally responsible for certain crimes that employees are committing, e.g. the CEO can go to jail if the company commits tax fraud.

That said, it's also a complete old boys' network and the risk premiums are extremely inflated, but that's nepotism for you.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by Natsu on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:57AM (#11017985)
That seems more historical than anything. I don't know the last time one of them has gone to jail for much of anything, you're very right about inflation/nepotism, as well.

And I don't really think anything is career-ending for that matter. I mean, look at the mess there was after Carly Fiorina and she's found other things to do.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by existencebox on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:52PM (#11017203)
Sure; I accept the explicit reason, my above was just to enumerate a few of the most common ways I saw people thinking about her/any CEO's position in this sort of situation.

Your final line re: network/inflated premiums seems to agree with the broader sense of what I was saying, unless I'm misunderstanding?

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by henrikschroder on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:12PM (#11017462)
I'm pretty sure we are in agreement. :-)
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by jacquesm on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:35PM (#11017143)
It all depends on whether those same people would be just as quick to credit her if she had in fact managed to turn Yahoo! around. Personally I don't think it could have been done, it was just too far gone in terms of momentum.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by discardorama on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:55PM (#11017559)
I was at Yahoo when Carol Bartz came in and did exactly that. And guess what? Morale plummeted.

"The beatings will continue until the morale improves" .... ever heard of that?

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by anotherhacker on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @11:36AM (#11020463)
Do you have a reference to that? I can't find any evidence that Carlo Bartz engaged in any retraining of employees.

Again, I'm not suggesting cost cutting. I'm suggesting a move from frivolous expenses, to those which help make the employees more successful.

As I commented before, Deming was all about training employees over firing them.

https://www.deming.org/theman/theories/fourteenpoints

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by henrikschroder on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:21PM (#11021751)
Perks in SV companies are absolutely not frivolous expenses! They are a necessary expense to attract and keep the right talent, in competition with other SV companies that also offer generous perks. If you cut it, morale plummets and you will lose a lot of good employees.

The link you posted contains great tips for assembly-line factories filled with replaceable hourly workers. SV is.. not that.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by discardorama on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @11:06PM (#11024676)
I was there when she cancelled the year-end party.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by eplanit on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:34AM (#11017784)
She had the same effect at Autodesk by applying the same philosophy.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by mattlutze on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @04:42AM (#11018502)
Culture and momentum are real and important parts of workforce morale. Killing them off, will actually send the wrong message to employees.

I've been at companies who followed the above and ended first an annual 4th of July party, then scaled back the Christmas holiday party, then started cutting semi-regular, informal, socialization activities over lunches and what not.

There was nothing more damaging to morale at that firm than killing the few times a year we got to have a bit of fun on the company's dime. We worked hard so the CEO could buy another house, and the reward was "no bonuses, no parties this year." I watched the life drain out of that place.

Killing employee morale activities costing millions won't save jobs lost by spending billions or implementing anti-employee policies.