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Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by tptacek on Monday February 01, 2016 @04:41PM (#11015706)
That's a much more fun thing to say than "person tasked with impossible job fails to do the impossible".

From the comments on this part of the thread, you'd think Yahoo was some kind of Internet colossus before Mayer took their reins, rather than an overgrown relic kept alive and profitable through sheer inertia.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by lisper on Monday February 01, 2016 @05:01PM (#11015870)
Impossible? Yahoo had gross income of $4.6B in 2014. That is one hell of a cash flow stream. I find it very hard to believe that turning that into a profitable venture again would violate the laws of either physics or economics.

I think a much more likely explanation is that Marissa failed because she brought no new ideas to the table, and also made a whole bunch of boneheaded blunders like this:

http://gawker.com/5987043/yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayer-installed-...

and this:

http://nypost.com/2016/01/18/marissa-mayers-job-safety-joke-...

while she unashamedly pocketed $36M for her first six months worth of work.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by tptacek on Monday February 01, 2016 @05:05PM (#11015915)
It had a top-line of 4.6B, but 1.2B in fixed costs and a little over 3B in payroll expenses.

Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office. She could have taken minimum wage and no other compensation, and no part of this story would have turned out differently, except they might have sold the company by now.

Arguments about Mayer's performance on threads like these are frustrating because the consensus (elsewhere, not here) seems to be that her first order of business should have been a significant layoff. But at this point, now that we have lurid stories about logos, nurseries, and poorly-timed jokes, there's no winning: their core business has been on a downward trajectory since long before she took over, and nobody believes they're appropriately staffed.

Later

For what it's worth, if you look at what I'm saying, nowhere am I claiming that Mayer is a good CEO. But I have doubts as to whether a good CEO could have done much to change the outcome here, except perhaps by fetching a better price at auction for Yahoo.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by lisper on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:27PM (#11016820)
> Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office.

Of course they don't. That's not the point. Putting a nursery in her office was not a boneheaded blunder because the cost of the nursery (or her salary) made the difference between the company succeeding and not. It was a boneheaded blunder because at the same time she put the nursery in her office she also rescinded all telecommuting. That had an understandably (and predictably!) devastating effect on morale. The message was: I (Marissa) deserve to have this perk that makes my life more convenient, but you, silly rank-and-file employee, do not. I don't even care if you can demonstrate that you can be productive from home, I don't have time to sort that out. I'm much too busy and important for that sort of trivia. So you're just going to have to suck it up and deal with your commute.

> her first order of business should have been a significant layoff

Could be. Whatever it is she should have done, she manifestly hasn't done it yet.

> I have doubts as to whether a good CEO could have done much to change the outcome here

People were saying the same thing about Apple before Steve Jobs came back. Sadly, in this case we will probably never know because that experiment will never be done.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by tptacek on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:42PM (#11016915)
Are you looking for someone to argue that Marissa Mayer was Steve Jobs? I'm the wrong person for that.

I'm saying something simple. You claim that Mayer had 4.6B of cash flow to play with turn around Apple. My response is simply (a) no she didn't, and (b) to the extent she had real revenue to work with, it was an encumbrance: she was tasked with turning around a company for which 30% of its income was people routing their search queries to Yahoo. It's hard to think of big moves you can make that don't somehow jeopardize that revenue stream. She's boxed in.

(Then you look at the activist shareholder critiques of her tenure, and it's like, "she spent 10MM buying iPhones for everyone on her staff", and I'm like, it's fucking 2014, almost nobody but Apple has figured out how to make huge amounts of money on mobile but pretty much everyone thinks it's the most important thing in the world to do, and she's, what, buying the staff computers to do that with? Sheesh.)

Did she rise to the occasion and do something unprecedented in business history, like Jobs did? No she did not. Executive hired to do the impossible fails to do the impossible, film at 11.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by lisper on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:46PM (#11017362)
> She's boxed in.

Certainly turning Yahoo around was never going to be easy. And it can be difficult to distinguish between "impossible" and merely "hard." We cannot possibly settle that question here and so there's no point in getting deeper into those weeds.

I will point out this though: I'm choosing to give Marissa and the Yahoo board the benefit of the doubt and assume that they disagreed with you, that they all thought it was possible. I'm also giving them the benefit of the doubt in assuming that they weren't necessarily wrong. Because the alternative is to believe either that 1) they are all idiots for thinking it was possible or 2) that they hired Marissa knowing full well that she was going to fail no matter what she did, and she accepted the offer and pocketed the $36M for her first six months on the job knowing full well that she was going to fail no matter what she did. That seems to me to be a much more damning accusation than anything I've said or implied. That they undertook a clearly impossible task is not actually a defense for a CEO who accepted an eight-figure salary IMHO.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by forgetsusername on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @06:15AM (#11018782)
It seems that you're saying something that is impossible to disprove: that no one could have fixed Yahoo. I'm skeptical, but I guess we will never know.

What I do know is that at the time of her hire, on these very boards, people were singing her praises for the most part. Because the Valley protects its own.

Steve Jobs isn't the benchmark here. Maybe it was an impossible task to right the Yahoo ship, but what exactly did she do that was positive or innovative...at all?

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by marincounty on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:08PM (#11016727)
When Mayer took over at Yahoo, I thought it could go either way-like everyone else. These tech companies are really about perception. I was waiting to hear, "Look at what Yahoo is doing!". Just didn't hear it.

I was suprised she didn't fire more people.

I thought it was a mistake to bring all telecommuting employees in.

I know she meant well, but all she did was irritate employees. There was no way these employees were going to bond, and magically turn into a Google love fest.

For some reason, I still think about happily doing your work at home, and then having to come into work and bond. Yes, I think it's important, at innovative companies, for employees to be present, all around the camp fire, but it's someting that needs to be done from day one.

In my world, I still stumble upon a yahoo page, but it's usually by malware on my old laptop I just haven't fixed. I'm glad they haven't changed their look, and then suprised.

Yahoo reminds me of just how dispensable these companies are in the bigger picture. Yahoo could dissapear, and I wouldn't even flinch. I don't even know anyone with a Yahoo email anymore.

Their next CEO should be an unknown, who's really into his/her tinkering stage in life. Young, crazy, motivated, bursting with angst. Gave this person a strong financial team, but don't hire the right looking candidate on paper.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by taurath on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:04PM (#11016363)
If there's no difference in whether she would've been paid zero dollars, then thats a pretty good argument that they should find someone that will take zero dollars - just find someone that wants to commit reputation suicide!
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by WalterBright on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:37PM (#11016886)
Remember Apple when Jobs took it over? 90 days from bankruptcy, and written off by most people. Getting the right CEO is enormously important, and not impossible.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by nikdaheratik on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:01PM (#11017431)
No I don't remember them being "90 days from bankruptcy". They had a cash hoard the envy of many U.S. states, a small but loyal group of paying customers, and a number of sources of actual non-hardware revenue from key inventions and licenses. And they didn't have a bunch of employees from legacy business deals to find homes for.

What Apple lacked was a clear focus on what their business needed to be, which was selling hardware, not licensing the OS or making business software, or any of the other bad ideas they had from trying to compete with Microsoft directly.

What no one here or anywhere else seems to have an answer for is "What is Yahoo's core business". It used to be the Yellow Pages for the Internet, and now it's basically a Media company with some legacy stuff like web email.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by WalterBright on Monday February 01, 2016 @11:19PM (#11017615)
"Apple Was 90 Days From Going Bankrupt"

  -- http://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/06/02/steve-jobs-90-days/#gref
"At an executive Session of the board in June, with Amelio out of the room, Woolard described to current directors how he calculated their odds. "If we stay with Gil as CEO, think there's only 10% chance we will avoid bankruptcy," he said. "If we fire him and convince Steve to come take over, we have 60% chance of surviving. If we fire Gil, don't get Steve back, and have to search for new CEO, then we have a 40% chance of surviving. "The board gave him authority to ask Jobs to return."

  -- "Steve Jobs", Isaacson, pg 314
> What no one here or anywhere else seems to have an answer for is "What is Yahoo's core business".

That's probably indicative that we are not CEO material :-)

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by nikdaheratik on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:12AM (#11017722)
He was being a little hyperbolic there. Which is one of Steve Jobs' tendencies. They had "90 days of working capital" left, but it was still $1.2B and they had annual revenues of $7B in 1997 and pretty much no debt. They had to replace the CEO to restore investor confidence, and Jobs was clearly the best choice, but they could have found a different CEO and muddled through.

It was the worst state the company had been in, but the losses had stopped even before Jobs took over. Not to understate Jobs accomplishments. Just saying a competent CEO could turn Apple from a doghouse company to a profitable company. It took a genius CEO takes a company from the the doghouse to the most valuable in the world.

Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by vacri on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:46PM (#11017172)
Outliers shouldn't be presented as typical data.
Re:Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units by WalterBright on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:57PM (#11017221)
Outliers are perfectly valid responses to claims of "impossible".