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Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by showell on Wednesday February 03, 2010 @11:41AM (#1098116)
You might be taking the statement out of context, and you are certainly quoting it out of context (although brevity is appreciated.)

The statement in the talk was made to illustrate the differences between Ruby and Python, and it was not made to suggest that Ruby was replicating all the benefits of Lisp.

Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by KirinDave on Wednesday February 03, 2010 @12:00PM (#1098182)
I understand the intent, but I do not feel that it loses its incorrectness by taking it out of context.

That people even feel this comparison is appropriate is what has me depressed. It represents a fairly fundamental set of misunderstandings.

Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by chromatic on Wednesday February 03, 2010 @04:11PM (#1098880)
> That people even feel this comparison is appropriate is what has me depressed.

I agree; you can replace the term "DSL" with "API" in almost every case without losing any essential meaning. (You have to give the hipper-than-thou language pseudo-advocacy, but that's no loss.)

Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by mjw on Wednesday February 03, 2010 @07:28PM (#1099359)
I think in those contexts, DSL is more a description of how an API feels to use, than a precise technical categorisation.`

Ergonomic distinctions are useful though, as is the distinction between declarative-style APIs and more imperative ones, which 'DSL' is often used to make.

Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by kscaldef on Wednesday February 03, 2010 @08:33PM (#1099502)
I have yet to see a Ruby "DSL" that didn't feel like Ruby. That is,

  unless you.talk :like => "this"
Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by kemiller on Wednesday February 03, 2010 @09:20PM (#1099577)
Those are just the "english-y" DSLs. Not all are attempting to read like english. And even for those that are, the point isn't to be writing in english, the point is to be at least halfway readable to a non-programmer reading over your shoulder.
Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by kscaldef on Wednesday February 03, 2010 @09:48PM (#1099621)
Okay, but it's not really all that clear that "sum.should == 3" is actually any more readable than "assert(sum == 3)". (Do you really have non-programmers reading code over your shoulder? I can't think of any case in a 10+ year career where that's happened.)
Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by kemiller on Monday March 08, 2010 @11:28PM (#1177477)
I don't personally use the stuff. :) But I have seen environments where that does happen, and it works pretty well for them.

If you're not doing that, I think they're kind of silly.

Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by chromatic on Wednesday February 03, 2010 @10:32PM (#1099680)
> ... the point is to be at least halfway readable to a non-programmer reading over your shoulder.

That's the same argument for filing the serial number off of TDD and calling it BDD: sometime, somewhere, somehow eventually some non-programmer is going to have to maintain source code without a trained professional programmer around to help.

I don't get it; FIT's been around much, much longer. What kind of non-developer business rule expert can read the punctuation-sprinkled pseudo-English pidgin Ruby spreads around but doesn't know how to manipulate tabular data in a spreadsheet?

Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by kemiller on Monday March 08, 2010 @11:31PM (#1177484)
The BDD reference is not just an analogy, it's what these are for. And it's not about non-programmers maintaining the code. Not at all. It's about a business owner and a programmer sitting together and making executable specs together.

I don't really get it, but I'm curious. People I respect swear by it.

Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by draegtun on Thursday February 04, 2010 @05:49AM (#1100248)
I have yet to see a Ruby "DSL" that didn't feel like Ruby

There are some out there though, for eg. FancyRoutes: http://www.railsinside.com/plugins/252-fancyroutes-a-nicer-d...

Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by kscaldef on Thursday February 04, 2010 @11:37AM (#1100849)
Really? That's the example you want to use. First thing I see on that page:

  get / 'orders' >> :orders > :index

  with route / :slug / 'order' >> :orders do
    get > :show
    put > :update
  end

  get {'item_images' => :controller} / :image > :show
That looks like Ruby all over the place. Yeah, it overloads operator methods more than most Ruby code, but it's very clear that it's Ruby.
Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by draegtun on Friday February 05, 2010 @04:09AM (#1103141)
I and i think most people would disagree with you because above does not "feel like" Ruby.
Re:What Pythonistas Think of Ruby by artpop on Thursday February 04, 2010 @04:59AM (#1100212)
haml, sass, cucumber...