Call it what you like. The point is that clear separation between logic and markup can be done and is valuable.
> Separating state isn't the same as no state.
Any web page that has inputs or controls is necessarily stateful - otherwise where does the input go?
> Also imperatively updating the UI on state changes is stateful.
There's nothing imperative about it. Have you looked seriously at Wicket or are you just throwing buzzwords around?
You concede the original point. To your new point, saying something is valuable doesn't make it valuable. Why? It decreases cohesion, which is not good.
> Any web page that has inputs or controls is necessarily stateful - otherwise where does the input go?
If this is a serious question, it's too far off any original point to teach you unfamiliar concepts. Learn about what stateless, declaratively, & imperatively UI means so there aren't strawmans, and so you can weigh in on these discussions.
> There's nothing imperative about it. Have you looked seriously at Wicket or are you just throwing buzzwords around?
Please do not dilute conversations on here by name calling. Imperative & state are basic computer science terms... o_O
No. Your original claim was that you need to mix logic and layout. You don't.
> If this is a serious question, it's too far off any original point to teach you unfamiliar concepts. Learn about what stateless, declaratively, & imperatively UI means so there aren't strawmans, and so you can weigh in on these discussions.
It's not me who needs to learn what those words mean. Either you're just trolling, you don't understand the terms, or you don't understand wicket.
Again, changing view to mean "template" is a strawman.
> Wicket clearly separates its state into models > You do have to declare which changes update which UI (for performance reasons),
Separating state isn't the same as no state. Also imperatively updating the UI on state changes is stateful. Which increases complexity, which for most people makes code hard to reason about.
> but you can make that "always re-render the whole page" if that suits your use case
Anything can be made to do anything, so this point is moot. If this model was trivially applied, would it lead to flickering, lower performance, losing scroll position, losing selection, or losing input focus?