Rust and the Blub Paradox

Re:Rust and the Blub Paradox by dbaupp on Sunday January 24, 2016 @07:07AM (#10962290)

I strongly disagree: the goal with Rust is to offer safe, low-level programming, not to be a test-bed (or whatever) for some programming paradigm. The "discipline" is just a tool to reach the goal. You can see this in the evolution of Rust: the goal hasn't changed, but the tool used to (try to) reach it has. (I know that you mention ignoring the chronology, but ignoring the intent doesn't make sense.)

Put another way: Rust isn't aiming to be top of the pack in terms of enforcing a certain programming style, where as it is aiming to be top of the pack in terms of safe systems programming. (It might happen to be the best language for the former, but that is a consequence of the latter, not the other way around.)

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Re:Rust and the Blub Paradox by Manishearth on Sunday January 24, 2016 @07:34AM (#10962336)

You misunderstand me: I don't disagree that Rust is all about safe systems programming. I disagree that "data race freedom" is Rust's (only) core guarantee, and I disagree that the "seemingly arbitrary rules" are about "data race freedom". They're about so much more, since the same rules get us memory safety as well, among other things.

I don't think that Rust is trying to test out a programming paradigm or whatever, I'm saying that these "seemingly arbitrary rules" get us a lot of things, by proxy of a certain paradigm, and reducing it to "data race freedom" (when it's so much more) is something we should avoid.

(My comment seems to focus on the discipline, I was just using it as a proxy for all of the things it gets us)

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Re:Rust and the Blub Paradox by dbaupp on Sunday January 24, 2016 @11:41PM (#10965607)

As we discussed on IRC, "data race freedom" is equivalent to guaranteeing memory safety, and so, in a kind-of pedantic way, data race freedom is the core guarantee. That said, the original comment would've been better phrased as "one of Rust's core guarantees".

Furthermore, I still think the best phrasing of the rules is for that guarantee: if a rule is removed one can usually construct fairly simple programs that have data races/memory unsafety. Of course, it is definitely true that the arbitrary rules have other benefits, but if there was a simpler scheme that gave the core memory safety without the other things, I think Rust would've adopted it.

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