Car Insurers Find Tracking Devices Are a Tough Sell

Re:Car Insurers Find Tracking Devices Are a Tough Sell by avn2109 on Tuesday January 12, 2016 @03:04AM (#10886143)

Once the (very closed source) metrology hardware and transmitter are installed, you have no way of knowing if they decide to track you intermittently, constantly, or never. Can they remotely and silently activate the tracking system at arbitrary times? Probably yes. Can they push software updates over the air to drastically change the functionality of the tracking system? Also probably yes. At the risk of sounding like RMS, an insurance vehicle tracker is not your computer - it doesn't do as you tell it, and it is not on your side. Furthermore you have no idea what they do with the data downstream, particularly wrt giving it to the law and storing it in very insecure ways such that (other) malicious actors can get it.

Unless you're the kind of person that believes in the truthfulness, good faith, and technical competence of insurance companies and the police, in which case I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.

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Re:Car Insurers Find Tracking Devices Are a Tough Sell by Mo3 on Tuesday January 12, 2016 @03:59AM (#10886287)

There are in fact some ways..

1) Measure power draw from the car battery (not 100% conclusive probably but a 24-hour measurement might be)

2) Get a 20$ RTLSDR stick, drive somewhere remote with no cell coverage and watch for the tracking device in the GSM/3G frequencies - if found to try to connect it is at least powered on and trying to listen to commands

3) If activated and running on GSM, there might be a chance to listen to and decrypt its communication with the cell tower, especially if text messages are being used - and if not or it's running on 3G you could still monitor how active and frequent the device is in sending and receiving data

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Re:Car Insurers Find Tracking Devices Are a Tough Sell by zubiaur on Tuesday January 12, 2016 @02:27PM (#10889698)

1) Would require for you to establish a baseline current draw. If your car has already been equipped with the tracking device, it might be very difficult as they are extremely well hidden and the owner is rarely informed of the location. Current draw also varies depending on aftermarket accessories installed, such as car alarms.

2, 3) Like in a multiple level underground parking lot?, that might work.

It is technically possible but probably beyond what the average new car buyer is willing to do.

What car thieves do is to drive the newly stolen car as far as they can in as little time as possible and park it somewhere public. And wait. If its not recovered after a day or two, they assume its not being tracked. (they remove the stereo, ecu and other valuable components in the meantime)

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Re:Car Insurers Find Tracking Devices Are a Tough Sell by PinguTS on Tuesday January 12, 2016 @03:23AM (#10886191)

Normally, trackers design for theft detection and reporting can not be re-used for active tracking without changing firmware.

The first one is triggered by a dedicated signal from within the car to be activated. Otherwise they are offline to conserve energy. Energy is a very very limited resource in a car. When they are activated, they send a text message for the GPS position. Only a vary view newer once can trigger a web request to report the GPS position. When they are activated they can receive text messages to execute commands like disabling the engine.

Versus active trackers are the once mostly designed and engineered within the last 5 years, are able to consume very low energy while activated. They report the position (and may acceleration, deceleration and other parameters) via a web request.

Theft prevention are mostly established legacy systems more than 10 years old. Thats a different technology then we are used today.

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Re:Car Insurers Find Tracking Devices Are a Tough Sell by zubiaur on Tuesday January 12, 2016 @03:38PM (#10890178)

The ones used here are activated remotely. If we assume the tracker to be similar to a cellphone and that it goes into standby mode after the car is of it will be drawing in about 2 - 4 ma, considering that a small car battery has a capacity of 45Ah the consumption would be negligible, it would deplete the battery in 625 days.

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Re:Car Insurers Find Tracking Devices Are a Tough Sell by PinguTS on Wednesday January 13, 2016 @07:55AM (#10893918)

You are not working in automotive? mA is a considerable amount even when running. In switched off mode, any ECU (with very few exceptions) should not draw more than 100 nA.

Remember, there is not only 1 ECU. There are around 40 to more than 100 ECUs. A battery should deplete not more than 50% in 8 weeks.

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