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Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by technofiend on Friday January 08, 2016 @09:37AM (#10865093)
If only Project Fi's cost/gb were competitive with T-Mobile so I could jump ship. For my volume of use (5-10GB/mo) T-Mobile is the cheapest provider in town.

Google's convergence (i.e. bundling Fi+Fiber) in this space would be exciting if they could get their MVNO pricing competitive but I guess they'd have to buy T-Mobile or Sprint to make that happen because they're not going to sell minutes or data at a loss.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by mikeash on Friday January 08, 2016 @09:54AM (#10865214)
As long as people prioritize price above all other things, shenanigans like this will keep happening. If you're not willing to pay more for better service then your likes or dislikes don't matter in the end.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by toolz on Friday January 08, 2016 @10:27AM (#10865493)
That's simply not true at all, if you're paying the lowest, that means you value money over extra service and provided ample opportunities for competition in the market place and customers that want cheap service. They'll get what they want.

If there isn't ample competition or near perfect legislation, it doesn't matter what you pay, the service will eventually be held by a monopoly that can do almost whatever they damn well please.

You don't fight monopolies by paying more money, because as long as that's your only focus, the bar to entering the market will continue to rise until eventually you can't afford the `good guy`.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by mikeash on Friday January 08, 2016 @10:37AM (#10865563)
There's no monopoly in the US cell phone market. Competition is decently robust, with four major networks and a buttload of MVNOs.

Right now, one network is pulling this throttling bullshit. If you don't like it, there are other choices. If you say "I wish I could switch but T-Mobile is cheaper" then what you're actually saying is that you don't care about the issue enough to pay for it, and that means the providers have no reason to care about it.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by maxsilver on Friday January 08, 2016 @11:00AM (#10865771)
> one network is pulling this throttling bullshit.

They're all doing something major that violates Net Neutrality.

Sprint's compresses images and throttles video https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e... They just don't advertise compression/throttling as a "feature", so it doesn't get the publicity. Sprint also does zero-rating for music.

AT&T has "Sponsored Data" and throttles 'unlimited' plans, and Verizon has their ad-tracking-injection mess.

Whoever I pay is going to get money for "pulling bullshit". I love the idea of voting with your dollar, but all of the major cell networks are anti-Net-Neutrality in multiple ways, so the whole thing is almost a false choice.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by mikeash on Friday January 08, 2016 @11:20AM (#10865938)
I don't see how throttling "unlimited" plans is a net neutrality problem, but other than that, point taken.

The comment I replied to mentions Project Fi, do they avoid all this?

Aside: not that this really makes it better, but AT&T's list of Sponsored Data providers is full of hilariously obscure companies:

http://www.att.com/att/sponsoreddata/en/index.html

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by netneutralish on Friday January 08, 2016 @11:49AM (#10866212)
I don't see how throttling "unlimited" plans is a net neutrality problem

It's one of the examples given during the FCC's bright-line guidance ( https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-332260A1.p...):

However, the network practice must be primarily used for and tailored to achieving a legitimate network management and not business purpose. For example, a provider can’t cite reasonable network management to justify reneging on its promise to supply a customer with “unlimited” data.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by mikeash on Friday January 08, 2016 @12:42PM (#10866644)
I still don't see how it's a net neutrality problem. Promising "unlimited" and then not providing it is a bad thing, certainly, but it's either false advertising or a failure to abide by the service contract, not a net neutrality violation.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by netneutralish on Friday January 08, 2016 @12:56PM (#10866747)
You'd be right if the carrier denied data access beyond a certain limit despite advertising "unlimited".

But if the carrier chooses to throttle an "unlimited" data plan and thus degrades the delivery speed outside of "network management" contexts (such as congested network conditions) then they are now subject to additional punitive fines arising from net neutrality regulations that they are now subject to, on top of any (successful) fines related to misrepresentative advertising.

This falls under the category of willfully "impairing, or degrading" an existing service motivated by business interests related to the specific subscriber, instead of driven by purely technical network management justifications which would apply to a wider geographic area (i.e. not subscriber-specific), and this is one of the bright-line examples given by the FCC when they issued their press release.

As a side note, I believe the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) Bureau of Consumer Protection handles deceptive advertising enforcement, while the FCC handles net neutrality enforcement.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by mikeash on Friday January 08, 2016 @01:16PM (#10866919)
I understand you're saying that the FCC considers it to be a net neutrality issue, and I'm not disputing that. I'm simply saying that I don't agree with that, and don't see why it would be considered a net neutrality issue. If you throttle all data to "unlimited" customers equally then that's still perfectly neutral. The government may disagree, but I have no reason to follow their definitions.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by matwood on Friday January 08, 2016 @10:40AM (#10865599)
I value price and service, both of which TMO wins for my use case today. I get we are talking about the future and where things can go, but the now is that they are the most customer friendly large wireless provider out there.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by rifung on Friday January 08, 2016 @11:37AM (#10866097)
Well, T Mobile also is the first carrier to do away with subscriptions which I support. Sure, I don't agree with everything they do but as far as I can tell they are the most agreeable of the bunch.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by heimatau on Friday January 08, 2016 @10:40AM (#10865595)
Project Fi is all about buying usage from T-Mobile and Sprint. It's a blend of the two services, providing 'the best experience' between the two. Give it enough time, Project Fi might change the game but it's a long way off, since they don't have the scale nor can you use every phone on their leased network.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by netneutralish on Friday January 08, 2016 @09:51AM (#10865188)
For my volume of use (5-10GB/mo) T-Mobile is the cheapest provider in town.

It's even cheaper if you don't opt out of BingeOn and can tolerate DVD (480p24) quality video streaming on your wireless device.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by VikingCoder on Friday January 08, 2016 @10:04AM (#10865309)
Google should REALLY develop a tool that lets you effectively estimate how much of your 5-10GB/mo would actually end up going over WiFi (and thus not cost you any Project Fi bits.)
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by Nullabillity on Friday January 08, 2016 @10:45AM (#10865641)
Uhm, the Android data monitor already splits between WiFi and mobile data usage.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by VikingCoder on Friday January 08, 2016 @11:31AM (#10866035)
Remember, a critical part of Google Fi is that it's supposed to automatically switch your voice and data to WiFi, and that Google has rigged partnerships such that they have lots of WiFi available for you to use.

So, if you currently use 5-10 GB/mo on one carrier, the theory is that you'll use less - possibly significantly less - on Google Fi.

That's SIGNIFICANTLY different from what you can see reported about how you manually configure the WiFi you have used today.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by ewindisch on Friday January 08, 2016 @11:53AM (#10866247)
Except I've had to turn off that feature on my phone with Google's Fi service because public hotspots aren't necessarily reliable and can result in missed or dropped calls.

Also, there is the whole security issue of connecting to public APs automatically.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by livingparadox on Friday January 08, 2016 @01:49PM (#10867191)
They route everything through a VPM when connecting to the public APs. So it prevents that security issue.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by starnixgod on Friday January 08, 2016 @02:20PM (#10867451)
I've had the opposite problem, Fi will drop and black list public AP's on me if they are moderately slow or have high latencies.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by Skunkleton on Friday January 08, 2016 @10:44AM (#10865631)
That 5-10 GB number is probably only mobile data, which is the number that shows up on your bill.
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by VikingCoder on Friday January 08, 2016 @11:30AM (#10866029)
Remember, a critical part of Google Fi is that it's supposed to automatically switch your voice and data to WiFi, and that Google has rigged partnerships such that they have lots of WiFi available for you to use.

So, if you currently use 5-10 GB/mo on one carrier, the theory is that you'll use less - possibly significantly less - on Google Fi.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by russell_h on Friday January 08, 2016 @12:43PM (#10866647)
Google Fi user here.

I don't think there is any "partnership", the "Wifi Assistant" feature just joins open wifi networks. It does do two neat things: first, it establishes a VPN tunnel through a Google controlled endpoint. Second, they seem to have a database tracking the quality of wifi networks. It won't join networks that are known to be slow, and if a network gets too slow it will automatically disconnect.

In practice though, almost every open wifi network is slow. Much slower than LTE, and certainly not something you could reasonably make a voice call over.

Overall I'm relatively happy with Fi. The service is a little better than T-Mobile (still not as good as AT&T) and the management interface is dead simple. Its what a software startup would build if they went into the cellular carrier business. And for my level of usage (3-4GB/month) the price is similar to T-Mobile.

But don't expect it to save you bandwidth.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by bduerst on Friday January 08, 2016 @12:54PM (#10866733)
Does international work? (Considering it's on top of T Mobile)
Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by yebyen on Friday January 08, 2016 @02:24PM (#10867474)
Yes, international data is supposed to be a flat charge (same as domestic, $10/GB) and international calling happens at what I would consider to be very reasonable rates, both to numbers in and from towers of foreign countries. Also, I believe there is unlimited international texting around the globe.

(I migrated from Verizon to Project Fi, and live close to Canada, so, consider that I am used to turning my phone off when out of the country or near the border, because of Verizon's very unreasonable rates for international calling and text.)

I don't think you can order a Project Fi account as a non-domestic resident, though.

Re:T-Mobile's John Legere Goes Off the Deep End: 'Who the Fu... by starnixgod on Friday January 08, 2016 @02:30PM (#10867529)
Yes, and at the same cost per gig as domestic data.

See Fi's rate card here: https://fi.google.com/about/rates/