News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by jamesroseman on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:06PM (#10837200)
It should be noted that per the article, this is for a single project for which the candidate has up to a month to complete. It's not a whole truth to describe the $25/hr as compensation for a "full month's work".

This is also, per the article again, undertaken while one has a job.

Not playing sides, just adding context -- I have no affiliation with the company.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by jon-wood on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:14PM (#10837265)
I can see why companies want to do this sort of thing, since it gives them a decent look at how people really do their job, but it almost entirely rules out people with a life outside of work. I'm already working a more than full time job, and Saturdays are entirely spent looking after our son so that my wife can get some work done.

That leaves one full day off, and a few hours each evening, by which I've likely been up since 5am, done a full day's work, got our son off to bed, and cooked a meal. Even if I thought I was likely to produce anything worth submitting, there's no way I want to give up the few hours of time my wife and I get together as a couple for the sake of a glorified job interview.

I guess I could take some time off work and treat it as my day job for a week, but then I've given up a decent chunk of my leave allowance in return for a job interview, and the addition of some tax paperwork to my life because I've been doing freelance work.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by jcadam on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:49PM (#10837560)
Yea, I recently turned down an interview with a company that included a similar 'trial' period as part of their hiring process.

From now on, any long, drawn-out interview process gets a 'pass' from me. I've had my time wasted too many times (employer suddenly goes dark after the final interview, no communication, no responses to any attempt at contact, etc). In fact, I've given up on my most recent job search after experiencing two of those in a row (need to save my vacation days for an actual vacation at some point).

On second thought, I suppose if I were unemployed and desperate I might be willing to put up with an onerous hiring process.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by lazaroclapp on Monday January 04, 2016 @04:43PM (#10838908)
Or, conversely, if you had very little commitments outside of work, time to regularly hack on side and sufficient interest in the job to say "ok, this month, my side project is going to be for someone else". But the point remains that this puts an uncommon expectation on applicants, one that maybe Automattic can afford to select for, but that would potentially cause untold problems if all employers hired this way.
Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by brudgers on Monday January 04, 2016 @03:06PM (#10838136)
For at least a few people, interviewing and job hunting will probably eat into their life outside of work regardless of if the company is paying them to complete a contract project or using traditional days full of interviews on site.

That said, maybe it's supposed to select against people who are ultimately unlikely to block out the time to go through the screening and hiring process regardless of its form. It's some tens of hours either way.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by jon-wood on Monday January 04, 2016 @03:49PM (#10838463)
I've got no problem with interviewing and job hunting taking up time outside of work, I expect that to be the case. However companies need to be respectful of that time, and see the difference between a day or two off to interview, and a month's worth of free time.

I respect that they at least pay for that time, which softens the blow somewhat, but at least for me the extra money isn't anywhere near as valuable as some free time. I know what burn out feels like, and there's no way I'd risk it for the chance of a job.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by lazaroclapp on Monday January 04, 2016 @04:52PM (#10838983)
One assumes that it's not a month worth of free time, but a few work-days worth of time distributed over the span of a month. Basically, it's one thing if that trial period takes you 15-20 hrs of paid 'extra' work during the trial month, and a very different one if we are talking, say, 120 hrs of "after work" time. Now, many people will pass on the 15-20 hrs of 'contractor' work as well, but some people will consider it a reasonable deal.

The only point at which this becomes a problem is if the industry expectation shifts so that you can only find a good job by performing contract work for a month before knowing if you'll be hired or not.

As long as there are options, well... the people who prefer doing algorithmic puzzles will interview at the puzzle-interview companies, the people who prefer doing side-projects will interview at the contractor-then-employee companies, and so on and so forth...

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by brudgers on Monday January 04, 2016 @05:07PM (#10839084)
The example project is a redesign for a single web page. With a month to let ideas percolate, that's likely to be less than 15 hours of work for a person who has made it through portfolio and resume review for a position designing web pages on the employer side and who is still interested in the job after several rounds of interviews on the employee side. To me that seems more pleasant than a couple of days in the airport and hotels to travel cattle class.

My take is that if it selects against candidates who view remote employment as just another free lance job, more the better for both sides. Remote employment is not another form of freelance work. The relationship is different.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by jon-wood on Tuesday January 05, 2016 @09:11AM (#10843295)
> My take is that if it selects against candidates who view remote employment as just another free lance job, more the better for both sides. Remote employment is not another form of freelance work. The relationship is different.

I'm not really sure how you've made that leap. It doesn't seem to me that hiring people for a freelance job selects for people who don't think of remote work as a freelance job. If anything you're selecting for people able to make that commitment.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by brudgers on Tuesday January 05, 2016 @06:29PM (#10847012)
The company's goal is not contracting with free lancers. It is hiring remote employees. I suspect the natural inclination of many people would be to treat the sample work project as free lance work because that's the short term form. The long term form is not free lance work. It is remote employment.

If the company is guarding against false positives in hiring, then what they are looking for is people who are able to reframe the short term form in terms of the long term form. That is people who treat the trial as trial employment rather than as strictly a free lance proposition because people who have made that transition are a safer bet than people who at the end of a month are still thinking like free lancers.

Putting on a suit and tie for two days of travel and job interviews is just as much a mock business situation as a trial project. It's just likely to be less informative to both parties. And it's still selecting for commitment to the hiring process.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by fweespeech on Monday January 04, 2016 @04:33PM (#10838828)
I've had multiple companies expect me to take 8+ hours of PTO for a job interview. I ended up taking an entire week to fit in all the interviews and I could easily see myself having filled in the down time in that week with ~20 hours of work while I sat on planes/airports and such.

I'm not seeing this as much different and I get paid twice for the twice. I doubt they want more than 40 hours of work out of you in one month while you work full time on a separate job.

Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by tyingq on Monday January 04, 2016 @01:10PM (#10837226)
$25 an hour is paltry for this type of work, no matter the duration. The duration of one month is from the article.
Re:Inside Automattic's Remote Hiring Process by georgestephanis on Monday January 04, 2016 @04:59PM (#10839028)
Yup, my trial took a grand total of about 20h to complete, spread over three weeks. Mostly weekends. (just as an example)