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Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by mwcampbell on Saturday January 02, 2016 @04:30PM (#10828051)
> So, just as "All Lives Matter" is not a good response to the "Black Lives Matter" movement,

It's tangential, but can you please explain this part? It seems to me that "All Lives Matter" really is the more apt phrase, because it shifts the focus from an us-versus-them conflict to actual justice.

Edit: Got it. I'll stop being part of the problem. The only remaining question is this: What's the most effective way to be part of the solution?

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by wfo on Saturday January 02, 2016 @04:50PM (#10828131)
Of course everyone believes that all lives matter. But the context is important. If someone says "black lives matter" and your response is "ALL lives matter", you're not just saying you think all lives matter, you're saying you don't think it's a racial issue. And willfully ignoring the problem of racism is what has allowed racism to flourish in, say, police departments.

So when you say "all lives matter" you're essentially saying "This problem that effects specifically black people doesn't matter. Let's focus on the more general and still important but less urgent problem that effects white people too, and maybe the problems facing black people will go away". It's like if someone comes to you with statistics about how horribly out of proportion police brutality is towards African Americans and your response is an anecdote about this one time the cops beat up a white guy. Or if someone brings up how serious sexual assault and harassment is for women and all you talk about is how men can be sexually harassed too. If you willfully refuse to recognize the problem, you're part of it.

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by puredemo on Saturday January 02, 2016 @06:39PM (#10828607)
>you're saying you don't think it's a racial issue.

Correct, it isn't a racial issue. Take the two most well-known cases for instance, Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.

Trayvon Martin assaulted Zimmerman unilaterally (Zimmerman never threw a punch,) had him in a ground-and-pound position and was bashing the back of Zimmerman's head onto the sidewalk while Zimmerman repeatedly screamed for help. If any white seventeen-year-old had done the same thing there would be zero outcry about recognizing the need for self-defense on the part of the neighborhood watchman. If a white kid in a hoodie was walking behind houses in the rain and looking into windows, nobody would label it "profiling" when a neighborhood watch leader called the police, since that's obviously questionable behavior.

Michael Brown had just committed robbery at a convenience store, then he assaulted a cop who asked him to walk on the sidewalk, then tried to wrestle away the cop's gun. Forensics shows Michael Brown didn't have his "hands up" when he was shot, meaning the witnesses all lied about the situation. Again, if a white teenager had committed strongarmed robbery and proceeded to try to grab a cops gun there would be literally zero sympathy or outcry when he was shot in self-defense by the cop. People would basically just call the dead teenager "trailer-trash," or something equally derogatory and move on.

The only factor race plays in any of this is that we would never have even discussed or heard of these absurd cases had the so-called "victims" not been black. If race enters into the narrative at all it's in the form of black privilege / supremacy, in that black communities seem to believe these incredibly violent assaults are fine and don't merit self-defense for some reason, solely due to skin color.

More accurately, it's all hyped up and manufactured by the media to stoke division because nothing sells ad space like impassioned controversy.

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by CuriousSkeptic on Saturday January 02, 2016 @07:14PM (#10828738)
Regarding witnesses and lying. Check out this Ted talk https://www.ted.com/talks/scott_fraser_the_problem_with_eyew...
Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by SideburnsOfDoom on Saturday January 02, 2016 @04:45PM (#10828106)
Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by analog31 on Saturday January 02, 2016 @04:54PM (#10828155)
In the US, "Black Lives Matter" was a phrase adopted by a protest movement to draw attention quite specifically to the way black people are treated. Rather than addressing this injustice, the right wing responded by attacking the name of the movement. It was seen as diversionary and insincere, since the suggestion of the phrase "All Lives Matter" was not accompanied by any sincere effort to amend the situation.
Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by jgord on Saturday January 02, 2016 @04:45PM (#10828108)
The cost of saying "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" is that you are seen to be ignoring the main issue.

Its not that its wrong, its that its perhaps insensitive - a certain amount of empathy and solidarity could be a start in acknowledging the problem.

So while "All Lives Matter" is truer, its less useful at the current moment in time when Black people are experiencing real pain, and we have a huge problem that needs to be addressed urgently.

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by Estragon on Saturday January 02, 2016 @06:46PM (#10828636)
"All lives matter," as a response to "Black lives matter," carries roughly the same implications as "Everybody hurts!" would, as a response to "I'm hurting real bad right now!"
Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by moron4hire on Saturday January 02, 2016 @05:09PM (#10828234)
It goes a little further than what the other people are saying. It's not just that the reply "All Lives Matter" is ignoring the issue of police violence against African Americans. It's being used as a defense of the police officers who did the killings, an apologistic post-hoc rationalization that the cop was defending himself. When a person uses "All Lives Matter", what they really mean is "cop's lives matter more".

The easiest thing you can do is donate to the ACLU. You could probably also find part-time volunteer work at any of the many institutions trying to end or mitigate poverty.

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by jazzyk on Saturday January 02, 2016 @05:45PM (#10828368)
>When a person uses "All Lives Matter", what they really >mean is "cop's lives matter more"

No, I understand it to be "police can sometimes use force unjustifiably towards anyone, of any race." If a cop murders someone, s/he should be held responsible (sadly, they are not). The reason that more black people get murdered by police is that they (blacks) get in trouble more often (which is NOT a justification to kill them)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by eropple on Saturday January 02, 2016 @06:30PM (#10828567)
> No, I understand it to be "police can sometimes use force unjustifiably towards anyone, of any race."

This would be true if this is what the people saying it demonstrated beliefs that were congruent with their actions. However, the overwhelming majority (to the point where the counterparty is anecdotal and, frankly, possibly mythical) use it to establish a fundamentally conservative defense of the status quo. I mean--"All Lives Matter" sounds good. Except it is used as a direct and intentional response to the institutional prejudice and societal control via police that is applied to black people, and when you look at deeds instead of words, that's super fucked-up.

"All Lives Matter" requires intentionally misunderstanding "Black Lives Matter." What it means, and what they no-sell as hard as they possibly, possibly can, is that it's really "Black Lives Matter, Too". Because right now, to society at large, black lives don't matter.

Deeds, not words, and the deeds are uniformly bad.

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by Estragon on Saturday January 02, 2016 @07:03PM (#10828689)

  > the overwhelming majority (to the point where the 
  > counterparty is anecdotal and, frankly, possibly 
  > mythical) use it to establish a fundamentally 
  > conservative defense of the status quo
While "All lives matter" is an inappropriate response, it is a natural one which well-meaning people come up with all the time. Honestly, when heard out of context "Black lives matter" is more than a little cryptic, and the first time I heard it my initial thought was "Are they claiming their lives matter more than most??"

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/24/417112... http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroo...

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by eropple on Saturday January 02, 2016 @07:23PM (#10828783)
If it's a default response for you (the generic you, not you specifically) to say it rather than think through the problem...I mean, that says a lot about societal awareness, and I can't really find much sympathy for that, but you're right in that some well-meaning idiots might view it as a surface-level thing. But those well-meaning, superficial people aren't in the discussion in the first place. Even Hillary Clinton--who should have known better--isn't going to BLM events explicitly as counter-protestors to chant "All Lives Matter" at them. Right now, as 2016 opens, "All Lives Matter" is the dog whistle of dog whistles.
Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by Estragon on Saturday January 02, 2016 @07:39PM (#10828849)
My point is that it's not just a question of societal awareness. The links in my GP post show Secretary Clinton and Governor O'Malley making exactly this mistake. They are not idiots and their ambitions depend on courting black voters, so they are acutely aware of the issues affecting black people.

The phrase is probably the best you can do in a slogan, but it is cryptic.

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by eropple on Saturday January 02, 2016 @07:51PM (#10828901)
> they are acutely aware of the issues affecting black people

See...I really don't think they are (or at least were before they got shellacked). I think it's so profoundly pervasive that even at the highest levels it hasn't been An Issue until very recently. So it's pretty tough for me to see that. (While I don't know O'Malley, I don't pay attention to inconsequentials, I think Hillary Clinton is a status-quo-favoring moderate on most things, which probably doesn't make me more sympathetic.)

Re:A Response to Paul Graham’s Article on Income Inequality by moron4hire on Saturday January 02, 2016 @05:56PM (#10828414)
yes, of course