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Re:YC Open Office Hours by mwseibel on Thursday December 10, 2015 @07:39PM (#10714744)
We are attempting to make YC more accessible to everyone. Looking at the people who have historically applied to YC - we feel the need to do extra work to reach out to specific communities that are historically under represented in the valley. But this work is on top of (not replacing) the general work we want to do to reach out to all potential founders.
Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Thursday December 10, 2015 @07:55PM (#10714807)
Good luck, sincerely. That's a noble goal.

I do hope you will do so with subtlety and insight. Favoring the most easily recognized and most politically significant demographic groups is a reasonable first step, but if it's the only step you take it may simply increase the tension of identity politics.

We've already seen, elsewhere in these comments, people you've left out asking for you to include them as well. For every one who speaks I'm sure there are many more who remain silent.

Re:YC Open Office Hours by dang on Thursday December 10, 2015 @06:29PM (#10714413)
Downvoting without responding is fine on HN. There are many more downvotes (and upvotes) than comments, which is as it should be.

I imagine these downvotes were because your comment gave what has become the #1 stock response to any such story without showing any awareness thereof or adding anything new; because the edge in it made it sound polemical rather than a sincere request for information; and because polemical stock responses turn into flamewars, which most of us aren't interested in and which break the HN guidelines. To downvote such comments is to be a good citizen, the way putting out small fires would be.

Note that one can make all of the above observations without disagreeing with the position you're implicitly advocating (that resources should target disadvantaged individuals rather than categories like race and gender). It's generally better to assume that downvotes are procedural rather than ideological. It yields better feedback about how your comments could be improved.

Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Thursday December 10, 2015 @06:36PM (#10714456)
I asked a few questions, and I'm honestly interested in the responses.

There may be very good reasons for the racial and gender bias in this program. Political, economic, marketing, correction for past bias by YC, or bias in other VCs, or who knows.

But asking for justification should be the stock response to such unabashed racism and sexism.

Re:YC Open Office Hours by lfjmfkekdk on Thursday December 10, 2015 @07:42PM (#10714759)
You do make a great point. It does baffle me that Obama's daughters would theoretically get special privileges for YC's office hours over, say, an immigrant kid from China whose family earns below the poverty line.
Re:YC Open Office Hours by jon-wood on Friday December 11, 2015 @03:05AM (#10715945)
Theoretically they would. However in practice I'm sure the people screening applications would be able to see that they're people who don't really need any special privileges, and prioritise someone else who does. Its not like applications are being selected by a random number generator.
Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Friday December 11, 2015 @03:19AM (#10715969)
Perhaps, but if the next session were for black and Latino founders, and Obama's daughters applied, would YC really pass up the chance to work with them ASAP?
Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Thursday December 10, 2015 @08:16PM (#10714910)
Looks like you've been downvoted too.

It's interesting how intolerant some people are about even the most reasonable criticisms of racial preference policies. Instead of offering a reasonable response to these criticisms, they often resort to attempts to silence critics.

Re:YC Open Office Hours by DanBC on Friday December 11, 2015 @08:14AM (#10716867)
> even the most reasonable criticisms of racial preference policies

It's not reasonable. It's the same tedious concern trolling that appears in every single similar thread.

Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Friday December 11, 2015 @12:21PM (#10718338)
Calling it concern trolling is just another way to try to silence critics, and avoid considering the criticism when you have no response.

This discussion has gone on for a while, and included dozens of downvotes and a few rational distractions, but not one response to the original questions.

Re:YC Open Office Hours by babl-yc on Thursday December 10, 2015 @06:49PM (#10714523)
I had similar thoughts when seeing the following section (but didn't comment under fear of immediate downvote).

"April - Female Founders, June - General, July - Black and Latino Founders"

I find it somewhat unusual that the open office hours are segregated. Why not just reach out to those groups but have general open office hours?

Re:YC Open Office Hours by cperciva on Thursday December 10, 2015 @07:54PM (#10714803)
Why not just reach out to those groups but have general open office hours?

I'm guessing that this is a serious question, so I'm going to give it a serious answer. This is a classic economic signalling behaviour, akin to getting a college degree in order to signal your intelligence or giving gifts in order to signal your wealth.

Consider two possible YCs: YC(a) is serious about having female and minority founders at office hours, while YC(b) is just trying to be politically correct. Advertising "we encourage female and minority founders to apply" wouldn't cost anything. Advertising "we will only accept female / minority founders in these months" in contrast has a cost -- they lose the opportunity to meet truly awesome founders who do not belong to the appropriate group -- but for YC(a) that cost is partially balanced by the fact that they're spending time talking to members of groups which they would like to help out. Thus the net cost for YC(a) is lower than the net cost for YC(b) -- just like getting a college degree takes less effort for someone who is highly intelligent than it does for someone who is less intelligent -- and so YC communicates to founders that they are more likely to be YC(a) than YC(b).

(Whether anyone thought it through to this extent, I don't know. But people routinely engage in signalling behaviours without being aware that they are doing so.)

Re:YC Open Office Hours by lexcorvus on Friday December 11, 2015 @11:44AM (#10718090)
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I understand the argument you're making about economic signaling, and indeed YC(b)'s milquetoast declaration of encouraging women and minority applicants would be a cheap sop to political correctness. But I think you elide an important point, which is that YC(a)'s signaling, though expensive, is also motivated by political correctness. In other words, you've tweaked two variables, when in fact only one has changed; a more accurate rendering is

YC(a) is serious about being politically correct, while YC(b) merely cares about appearing to be politically correct.

Political correctness is common to the two cases for the simple reason that YC(a) would inevitably help wealthy, well-connected female and black/Latino founders to the exclusion of, say, poor, less-privileged Asian founders. It's hard to explain this behavior in humanitarian terms, but it's easy to explain in political terms. Nobody gets in trouble these days for expressing the sentiment that we need more women, blacks, and Latinos in tech, no matter how rich and well-connected they may be.

The only other possibility I can think of is that YC(a) genuinely wants to help especially deserving founders, and such founders are so overrepresented among women and blacks/Latinos that specifically targeting those groups achieves the goal well enough for YC's purposes. In other words, the cost of reaching such founders may be so much lower when targeting specific self-identified groups that it's worth the minor cost of helping the occasional privileged member of one of those groups. Still, it's hard to avoid the observation that this policy is generally aligned with political correctness, which would appear to justify some skepticism.

(My guess is that YC's policy isn't Machiavellian in the least, but it works adaptively because of a political environment in which explicitly helping women and blacks/Latinos is strongly favored both by custom and by law.)

Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Friday December 11, 2015 @01:20PM (#10718818)
> Nobody gets in trouble these days for expressing the sentiment that we need more women, blacks, and Latinos in tech

I think that's true in California, but politically correct favoritism that ignores class helps fuel right-wing extremism.

Perhaps I see that more clearly because I don't live in the SV bubble.

Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Thursday December 10, 2015 @08:37PM (#10714979)
It also has an unfortunate signalling effect to people (Native Americans, for example) who don't belong to either the traditionally or the newly favored group.
Re:YC Open Office Hours by cperciva on Thursday December 10, 2015 @08:47PM (#10715006)
Quite true. I suspect that Native Americans were unintentionally overlooked; I'm pretty sure that as an ethnic group they are significantly underrepresented in the world of startups.
Re:YC Open Office Hours by matheweis on Thursday December 10, 2015 @06:34PM (#10714444)
I didn't downvote. But I'd suspect that a part of the reason is that not all of the sessions will be divided/limited to specific groups. YC will "also open some months to anyone in the startup community."
Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Thursday December 10, 2015 @06:39PM (#10714468)
I'm not sure how to interpret that. Does that mean those months are effectively primarily for white and Asian males, since many of the female, black, and Hispanic candidates will go to the exclusive sessions?
Re:YC Open Office Hours by matheweis on Thursday December 10, 2015 @06:41PM (#10714481)
They are encouraged to apply for as many as possible: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10713817
Re:YC Open Office Hours by leereeves on Thursday December 10, 2015 @06:47PM (#10714518)
Indeed, but if the best candidates are equally distributed across race and gender, and just black, Hispanic, and female founders are chosen for exclusive sessions, the best of the remaining candidates would be those that didn't qualify for the exclusive sessions.