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Re:How Airplanes Fly: A Physical Description of Lift (1999) by Retric on Thursday December 10, 2015 @11:23AM (#10711427)
I did say the top of the wing reduced a downward force, unlike the skipping stone theory. But, that's not lift.

Do you think individual air molecules are going to magically hold the top of the wing and pull?

Now, you can use an inaccurate model of what's going on. And mathematically it looks like the top of a wing provides lift. But, physically that's not what is happening.

PS: This is only an issue, because we think an aircraft as zero forces acting on it when it's sitting still on a runway. Instead of being under ~2100 pounds of force per square foot on all sides from air.

Re:How Airplanes Fly: A Physical Description of Lift (1999) by Gravityloss on Thursday December 10, 2015 @02:08PM (#10712625)
I think you've changed definitions on the fly. Both the higher pressure on the bottom and the lower pressure on the top contribute to the lift.

If you use a suction cup to lift a piece of horizontal glass, well, I think most reasonable people would say it contributes a force. Maybe you'd say no it doesn't, you don't actually lift it, you just provide a lower pressure at the top allowing the bottom air pressure to push it up... Well duh, of course.

Re:How Airplanes Fly: A Physical Description of Lift (1999) by Retric on Thursday December 10, 2015 @02:28PM (#10712782)
I don't think science should care what 'reasonable people' believe, because reasonable people are often wrong. The whole point is to build accurate models of the world and perpetuating a myth is harmful in the long term.

PS: Can you point to where you think I changed definitions? I may have been less than clear.

Re:How Airplanes Fly: A Physical Description of Lift (1999) by Gravityloss on Thursday December 10, 2015 @07:17PM (#10714639)
Your definition of lift is very different from the commonly accepted one.

If an aircraft that weighs 1000 kg flies level, then the lift has to be 9800 newtons.

That means the lift is the sum of the effect from both the bottom overpressure and the top underpressure.

You can check it from any dictionary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_%28force%29

Re:How Airplanes Fly: A Physical Description of Lift (1999) by Retric on Thursday December 10, 2015 @08:55PM (#10715037)
In level flight every actual force vector above the wing is lowering the magnatude of lift.

If you owe 2000$ and have 2200$ your net worth is positive 200$. But, people don't talk about debt as adding to your net worth even if it's part of the equation debt is reducing the result not increasing it.

PS: I agree you don't need to model the 2.1 tons per square foot of force in most situations. But, just because you ignore something does not mean it goes away.