> The λ-calculus - a 70 year old system - already does everything that all those do, simpler and faster...
If you're saying that you can write programs faster in the λ-calculus than you can in Lisp/Scheme, I think you're kidding yourself. If you think they'll execute faster, I still seriously question your view. And if you think a medium-to-large program will be faster to understand if written in the λ-calculus, I think you're completely mistaken.
About the performance of the program itself, yes, λcalculus is faster than Scheme, by an order of magnitude, sometimes. For one, algorithms on church-encoded lists fuse by reduction, which means that the code below, in Caramel:
map f (filter cond (zipWith (+) (map f a) (map f b)))
fuses to a single tight loop - i.e., it iterates through the lists `a` and `b` only once, and returns the result after that, creating no intermediate structure. Scheme would create 4 intermediate structures on this case. Since it is already 2~3x slower than the λ-calculus (running on GHC), that'd make it an order of magnitude slower in that case.Agreed, λ-calculus is simple and clean. But what about the machine code being generated? Eventually, each concept in the abstraction has to be translated, often through several layers, to memory locations, register contents and the available instructions. Allowing for cache issues and out of order instruction issue. It is because of these and many other reasons that compilers, such as gcc, have gotten so big and complex.
Bear in mind that almost nothing I write is simple, self-contained, written in isolation, etc.
R5RS, the simplest used spec of Scheme, takes dozens of page to merely describe the language. The λ-calculus can be described and implemented in a paragraph. That makes it much easier to create new backends, for example.
I'm all for purity, but so far, I haven't seen anything IRL that backs up your claims/arguments.
Funny you should ask this question on HN. Have you read PG's essays on Lisp and the competitive advantage it granted his team in developing ViaWeb?
Your question might be about PLs, but in effect you are asking why somebody would prefer one abstraction over another.
Personally, I find it difficult to read and grok math. But if I write out stuff in Lisp s-exprs and use meaningful names for functions, etc, then I generally can understand a little bit better. Being able to "execute" such descriptions helps further.
Languages such as Lisp, Scheme, Smalltalk, Self (of the ones I'm familiar with) have simple syntax and powerful abstractions. They failed to gain "market share" due to perceived failings. However, they adhered to the philosophy of Occam's Razor.
I'll probably get flamed for saying this ... when you look at systems written in Lisp, the debates tend to boil down to people arguing over whether their abstraction is better than the other guy's. With a powerful language you can do anything in any way you choose. So the abstraction becomes the differentiating factor. Hence the emergence of not invented by me syndrome.