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Re:100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just F... by vardump on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @06:55AM (#10654701)
Disclaimer: I am not a physicist.

Maybe gravity will turn out to be just a computational artefact. The more energy and states in a volume, the "slower" progression of the [local] system. An effect like this could appear as curved space at energy concentrations. Perhaps GR could be derived from something like this?

Re:100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just F... by danbruc on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @07:39AM (#10654872)
Ideas like that are often mentioned here when related topics come up but they are almost surly totally wrong. Computing means doing something in several steps and that is - as far as we can tell - absolutely not what the universe is doing. Even if the universe did something like that it would just mean that there is another layer below evolving in a more fundamental way.

Many people seem pretty confused when physicist talk about things like the black hole information paradox. We think that all physical processes are reversible which means that distinct physical states will always remain distinct. If state A and state B could or would evolve into the same state C this assumption would no longer hold because you could no longer tell whether you arrived at state C from state A or B. The laws of physics would not be time reversible.

And this is the sense in which physicist talk about information, the description of the state space. If you throw something into a black hole the only things that remain visible are things like the mass, the charge or the (angular) momentum but you just lost all the details about the thing you threw into the black hole which is a problem for our understanding of physics.

Re:100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just F... by Filligree on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @09:13AM (#10655405)
> And this is the sense in which physicist talk about information, the description of the state space. If you throw something into a black hole the only things that remain visible are things like the mass, the charge or the (angular) momentum but you just lost all the details about the thing you threw into the black hole which is a problem for our understanding of physics.

Why is that a problem? The information could still exist, it'd just be inaccessible...

This seems no different to me than a spaceship going beyond the Hubble horizon.

Re:100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just F... by danbruc on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @10:17AM (#10655897)
It is a problem in either case - if it really disappears then time reversibility, a real corner stone of physics, is violated, if it does not disappear the problem is that we don't understand (well) where it goes. As far as I know the favourite theory is that the information is contained in the Hawking radiation and I believe to remember that there was a paper not too long ago that showed how to recover one (or a few) (qu)bit(s) from Hawking radiation in a special case. Because time reversibility is such a deep concept it seems likely that we just don't understand well where the information goes, I doubt that many physicists believe the information really disappears.
Re:100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just F... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @01:13PM (#10657515)
We believe that certain symmetries apply to the laws of physics. For example, we believe that the laws of physics are independent of the observer's position. I mean, look (visualize me stepping sideways here). So we can demonstrate that one pretty easily. And they're independent of rotation. Again, look (visualize me turning 90 degrees here). And exchanging left and right. I mean, look... (visualize me pausing with a confused look on my face as I try to figure out how to exchange left and right).

I can't actually do that experiment. And it turns out, when we got deep enough, we found out that things actually behaved differently (parity non-conservation).

When it comes to time reversal, we can't actually do the experiment, either, so we don't really know whether physics behaves the same when time is reversed. We expect, philosophically, that it will, but we don't know. But it seems to me, given how relativity mixes time and space, if physics is not the same with left and right reversed, then it can't be the same with time reversed either.

Re:100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just F... by danbruc on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @02:41AM (#10661543)
Saying we consider time reversibility true for more or less philosophical reasons seems a bit of an understatement to me. Conserved quantities prevent states differing in at least one conserved quantity from ever evolving into the same state, i.e. conserved quantities partition the phase space and states cannot cross those partition boundaries. This also has to hold for all isolated subsystems. And conserved quantities arise from symmetries like homogeneity and isotropy of space which are pretty solid empirical and experimental facts. It's all interlinked and I imagine it would not be to easy to eliminate time reversibility from the laws of physics without causing some odd consequences.
Re:100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just F... by Natanael_L on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @10:18AM (#10655907)
The entire point is that it shouldn't become inaccessible, because that is WHY time symmetry appears to break. Because it means that if you flipped the direction of time, something with a causal effect appears seemingly randomly out of nowhere.
Re:100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just F... by vardump on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @02:46PM (#10658188)
What would cause losing time reversibility? I don't see any irreversible aspects. I don't doubt you know what you're talking about, I ask because I'd like to understand more.

I think in the idea I mentioned up time would stop in black holes. All of the information would be preserved.

Anyways, not a physicist.