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Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by jerf on Monday November 23, 2015 @09:32AM (#10614753)
Suppose you want to build a railway from TownA to TownB. It's ten miles and you can prove in every conceivable way that it will be profitable for both you and the two towns.

You still can't, because in a society with strong property rights, all the land is owned by somebody, and unless you're out west where one person might own the vast majority of the requisite right-of-way, you have basically no chance of every acquiring all the rights at any reasonable price. Geometry is conspiring to incentivize people in the middle of any given path to hold out for more money by holding the prospect of failure over your head. Reality has even shown that many people irrationally overestimate how much they can squeeze from you, so you realistically face the prospect of many people believing they are the last holdout and trying to squeeze you for so much that it renders the entire project economical.

Thus, the only conceivably private public transport must run on the roads anyhow. Anything else is going to be created by some form of government action; in some sense calling it "subsidized" is almost misleading in that it's entirely created by the government in the first place, even if half-privatized after the fact.

All the instances you name are situations in which one singular entity owns all the land, and thus doesn't have the problem of having to coordinate with dozens of irrational people all trying to squeeze you for cash.

Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by merpnderp on Monday November 23, 2015 @09:52AM (#10614858)
This is exactly what eminent domain is for. The state needs to build a railway, they give fair market for the property, and then take the property. This isn't a new problem and was solved 150 years ago. The Kelo case (wrongly I believe) cleared up some confusion on if the a government can take the land in order to give it to businesses who will use it in a way the government prefers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by vinceguidry on Monday November 23, 2015 @10:00AM (#10614901)
That's not the real problem. If it were, then there's a time-honored mechanism for clearing the way, eminent domain. To employ it, you need a politician with enormous political capital.

The problem is generating that capital. Most Americans simply don't care enough about transit for a politician running on the "Moar railways" platform to get elected.

Most of our passenger rail mass transit systems got built before reliable auto transportation became cheap. Now that cars are ubiquitous, the political will isn't there anymore.

Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by pjc50 on Monday November 23, 2015 @10:46AM (#10615198)
Compulsory purchase ("eminent domain") has been the solution to this since the development of the railways, when it required an Act of Parliament.
Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by jerf on Monday November 23, 2015 @10:58AM (#10615272)
This is my reply to everybody suggesting that the "solution" is eminent domain: The topic under discussion is why you can't build private mass transport system. Once you've invoked eminent domain, you've got a government project, because as the entity with the power to say "yes", the government is in charge. Even if they are nominally using a private company to do the actual work. (Which is also appropriate anyhow since governments should not be bothering themselves with internally developing such capabilities.)

I'm sorry I didn't spell out what I thought was a common-knowledge topic.

None of this is criticism; for exactly the reasons I discussed I don't see any practical alternatives to collective action at the governmental level.

Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by pjc50 on Monday November 23, 2015 @12:17PM (#10615711)
The topic under discussion is why you can't build private mass transport system.

Not quite - I think that's why you've got so many replies. The comment you were replying to said "subsidised" not "private", which are different things, so it looked like you were answering a question nobody had asked.

You can have unsubsidised state mass transport and subsidised private mass transport. Although not having a subsidy is rare, there are a few state services which are required to run at operational breakeven.

Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by hydrogen18 on Monday November 23, 2015 @09:41AM (#10614799)
> "Reality has even shown that many people irrationally overestimate how much they can squeeze from you"

Please explain this further.

Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by jerf on Monday November 23, 2015 @11:04AM (#10615302)
There are a ton of stories about people holding out for more money from developers trying to buy up swathes of land. Some of them hold out for so much (including the effective infinity of "simply will not sell") that it actually ends up more practical to build around them. This is the extreme, but here's some pictures of the results of that sort of thing: https://www.google.com/search?q=eminent+domain+holdouts

I'll say again those are the extremes, but it's a common local- or regional-interest story to read about someone holding out for more money because they're the last parcel needed for some development or something. Usually it's an easy "little guy sticking it to The Man" story for the local news human interest segments.

Re:California's DOT Admits That More Roads Mean More Traffic by maxerickson on Monday November 23, 2015 @10:04AM (#10614924)
Consider 2 outcomes. One is that the project moves forward with the owner getting x+y for their land. The other is that the project doesn't move forward and they are able to sell it for roughly x.

There is at least a sense in which turning down y is irrational. Of course it doesn't have to be irrational, but if they believe they would be better off with y and are simply trying to get more, there is some degree of unreasonableness involved.