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A comment on VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks. Parent comment

Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by acqq on Wednesday November 18, 2015 @06:00PM (#10591378)
No. You haven't read Quran. You would not be able to write what you do. Even in "Letter To Baghdadi" those who signed quote:

www.lettertobaghdadi.com/14/english-v14.pdf

"God  says in the Qur’an: ‘Because of that, We decreed for the Children of Israel that whoever slays a soul for other than a soul, or for corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers have already come to them with clear proofs, but after that many of them still commit excesses in the land.’ (Al-Ma’idah, 5: 32)."

And that is actually cherry picking. If you read the sentence before and the few sentences after together with 5:32 you get what was said:

"32 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.

33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; "

That's 5:32 and 5:33 together. Is there some nuance? The command is the "old" one given to the Jews but they became "prodigals," says "god" speaking in plural about him (as he does on other places in Quran too). The "reward" is specified one verse afterwards.

Or even better read the whole Sura 5, to get the whole message. One clearer translation (start from the verse 1 and beware the following side is behind the left arrow):

http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=4_176&m=hafs&qare...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by the_af on Thursday November 19, 2015 @12:00AM (#10592847)
I'm sorry, "no"? "No" to which part?

That ISIS uses modern propaganda techniques?

To the article I linked?

To the assertion that holy texts need interpretation?

That there is a doctrinal dispute between factions of ISIS and Al-Qaeda, therefore showing there can be no single interpretation?

All of it?

You're so hell-bent in replying "wrong" and "no" to every post you disagree with, it's really hard to understand what you actually mean, beyond "here are some horrible passages from the Quran".

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by acqq on Thursday November 19, 2015 @04:39AM (#10593721)
The claims you make aren't based on even attempting to read Quran. So it's "no, you haven't read anything from the sources" you just try to make the case based on some bad articles, bad because they also haven't read from the sources or distort the facts enough to give a false impression. How do I know? I've read not only the line with the quote that is claimed to be peaceful but the whole chapter. You can do that too. Please read, then I'd like to see you writing with straight face what you wrote. Because it's not "some places." Just try reading that book, like, at least 20 percent. If you manage 20% then you'll be able to recognize the rest, as it's quite repetitive. I don't see why not reading? If it's really beautiful, peaceful and "nuanced" you'll feel good reading it, even the whole of it. It anyway inspires 1.5 billion people of the world. Find out how yourself.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by the_af on Thursday November 19, 2015 @09:16AM (#10594841)
But I didn't attempt to read the Quran, so that cannot be the basis for your disagreement. I claimed that, since most Muslims aren't raving fanatics attempting to slay the infidel, there must be something more to Islam. I've also shown that people who have read the Quran (like a professor of religious studies who specializes in Islam) think it's open to interpetation.

I also think that understanding a religious book isn't as simple as sitting down one day and reading end to end. It's not just the Quran anyway; there is a huge body of followups that must be read in order to understand it. Some of them contradictory, some open to interpretation, some of varying degrees of reliability.

Have you read them all?

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by acqq on Thursday November 19, 2015 @06:21PM (#10598398)
Go away. If you aren't willing to read it yourself, your arguments are just the arguments of "intentional unwillingness" to even consider the original material I try all the time to discuss with you. You ignore the primary holy books of Islam and ignore the history of Islam conquest, some 1400 years. What's left? Your vain "argument" that not every Muslim blew himself up with the bomb belt already should prove that the religion isn't violent? Not everybody has to blow himself up, just a percentage of young men willing to fight (and die) or just oppress is more than enough to make the permanent damage to this civilization (as proven through the history). They do the dirty work, the clerics will just rule. That just a few are enough, ask Malala

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

ask the victims of Boko Haram:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram

It's not something exclusive for this period in history, the motives, principles and methods can be traced through all the 1400 years of the existence of Muslim faith.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris ... by the_af on Sunday November 22, 2015 @05:44PM (#10611827)
I think reading the full Quran is immaterial to this discussion (I haven't read the Holy Bible fully either... gasp!). I rely on the testimony of experts on Islam, which you fully disregard even though you are not an expert yourself. I also haven't read every issue of The Watchtower but I still have an opinion about Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't find reading holy books about religions whose beliefs I don't share all that interesting.

I understand there are Islamic extremist groups; I've never disputed that. I'm arguing here that it's the extremism and not the Islamic that's worrying. I've read about Islamic culture and its history, and much like Christendom, it has both admirable and reprehensible parts. It's simply not true that the majority of the Muslim world do or support violent terrorist acts. Your position simply doesn't stand a reality check.

Have you read the Quran back to back, fully, including the verses that preach tolerance and compassion?

[ Parent | on HN ]