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Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by jazzyk on Thursday October 29, 2015 @04:55PM (#10474208)
Cool stuff, sure. But, in my opinion, IoT will be slow to take off until the security aspect is solved - and it is a tough one.
Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by StavrosK on Thursday October 29, 2015 @06:04PM (#10474700)
That's exactly my problem too, and I decided to develop a prototype protocol for it. I wrote a reference implementation in python, feedback very much desired:

http://stringphone.readthedocs.org/

Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by bdamm on Friday October 30, 2015 @01:15PM (#10479084)
* The weaknesses you outline in the introduction are pretty serious.

* How to exchange the topic key is described as out of scope, but totally critical since you also propose renewing the topic key as a way of attaining forward secrecy.

* You totally hand-waved away the exchange of participant keys.

* I'm pretty sure you've exposed some cryptographic weaknesses in the core protocol but I'm not going to spend the time to keep analyzing.

So in short, your protocol is not very useful. Sorry.

The biggest problems in IoT space are key agreement and machine trust among a hugely heterogeneous population. Solutions will come in the form of standards adoption, hegemony, government regulation, and probably a combination of all three. Multicast security is somewhat of a solved problem (e.g. wifi.)

Communications security between actual people is an entirely different and more easily solved problem.

Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by StavrosK on Tuesday November 03, 2015 @08:40PM (#10504029)
> The weaknesses you outline in the introduction are pretty serious.

There's no weakness there that's not fixable. Replay protection can be easily added in the layer above, and rolling the topic key can also be done. The nonce problem can go away with using the wider Salsa variant.

> How to exchange the topic key is described as out of scope, but totally critical since you also propose renewing the topic key as a way of attaining forward secrecy.

Where did you see that? I go into a lot of detail here: https://stringphone.readthedocs.org/en/latest/protocol.html#...

> You totally hand-waved away the exchange of participant keys.

See the previous point.

> I'm pretty sure you've exposed some cryptographic weaknesses in the core protocol but I'm not going to spend the time to keep analyzing.

Hmm.

> Solutions will come in the form of standards adoption, hegemony, government regulation, and probably a combination of all three.

"Don't bother working on it" doesn't sound like very useful advice...

Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by bdamm on Thursday November 05, 2015 @12:09PM (#10514536)
Are you going after people or machines as your target? It matters which, because machines can't do human trust, so then the issue of how you exchange keys and establish trust is forced.

What's the stop a MITM between a client and any other client from intercepting the conversation? In your protocol, nothing, except that if the MITM isn't there at the start, they can't join in right away. This is not a very useful assurance. So please, keep working on it, but I think your challenges are pretty serious. If the problems are fixable, then go ahead and fix them. I'd be happy to take another look - after that.

Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by Natanael_L on Thursday October 29, 2015 @07:42PM (#10475280)
Link encryption and authentication is pretty much "solved" in that we have the components we need already. Then there's the issue of code bugs and lack of updates - I think this should be solved in most cases by devices exclusively talking over a filtered API via a trusted gateway to prevent exploit attempts from succeeding.
Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by CamperBob2 on Thursday October 29, 2015 @06:20PM (#10474789)
I can't think of any other technologies that have waited for the security aspect to be solved, can you?
Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by TeMPOraL on Friday October 30, 2015 @12:46AM (#10476200)
Solving security aspect will mean much less hackability, which means slowing down its development.
Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by dconrad on Thursday October 29, 2015 @05:02PM (#10474257)
Security in the LoRaWAN standard is well thought-through, you might be surprised.
Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by bdamm on Thursday October 29, 2015 @05:19PM (#10474388)
Googling this did not lead to joy. Do you have a direct link?
Re:How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things by slewis on Thursday October 29, 2015 @05:51PM (#10474615)
https://www.lora-alliance.org/portals/0/specs/LoRaWAN%20Spec...

Would love to hear thoughts on it. Email address in my profile.