Why is it that when rich people vote against their self interest and vote to raise taxes, that's considered noble. But when poor people vote against their self interest and vote for the government to take less money from people other than them, they're being manipulated?

I don't know, I haven't thought about their motivation and interest yet too much. But talking to a few of them in the past (one was worth probably $100m+) I undestand they want to pay more taxes to maintain infrastructure and and not push the poor too much over the edge. Prisons are already full, crime is high, inequality is high, enough kids are already starving. So it seem the more forward thinking of the wealthy can see the current course of action might not be end well for everyone.

But I have a hard time believing that each poor person with less than a month in savings, working for some fast food chain, is making a rational decision voting against nationalized health care or rasing taxes, just in case they reach the American Dream, and become a successful owner of a small busininess who will be strangled and starved by high taxes from Uncle Sam when they do.

One of the biggest lies is that the rich got the poor to think of themselves as not poor, but pre-wealthy. They are just a few hard working years ago from being Donald Trump, if they just worked a bit hard (because if they don't they are just a lazy and deserve it). So as such, they sure wouldn't want to vote against the interest of the future successful selves...

Maybe they are being manipulated but I just think its a little classist to second guess the beliefs of those in lower socio-economic classes. Just as you may rightfully reject the idea that the poor are poor because they're stupid, I equally reject the idea that the poor vote against their self interest because they're stupid or easily manipulated.

The alternative to believing that you are pre-wealthy is believing that you are stuck in your current socio-economic class and don't really need to strive for anything. Working towards a goal is a benefit in it of itself. Explains why those that are handed everything in life are often unhappy.

The ironic thing is people angered by inequality and also angered by the belief that social mobility is even possible.

> I just think its a little classist to second guess the beliefs of those in lower socio-economic classes

I am second-guessing based on their actions not just beliefs. After talking to wealthy acquintances and poor ones, I can see why the wealthy might not mind paying more taxes longer term. After talking to more poor acquintances and how they justify how and why they vote, I don't a good rational explanation often.

> Working towards a goal is a benefit in it of itself.

That's a good point. I believe in that as well. I just think it is better if goals are realistic and it is important to understand how the world works and how power is distributed, should they want to make any change or affect or change it, they'd be able to.

Education. The rich are informed and therefore its noble. The poor are uninformed are therefore its manipulation.

I live in a small town and most of my poor friends voted for Obama. Now they are all furious because they're getting fined for not having health insurance. They don't make enough (or don't manage their money well enough) to pay for Obamacare every month. It doesn't provide great plans either - one person I know pays $130/month for a plan with a deductible of several thousand.

Exactly it was a typical bait and switch program. It should have had a single payer option but that was gutted pretty quickly in the beginning (one can argue it would have never passed without).

I was on the other end of the spectrum. I had a good insurance through a small company and because of Obama care also kind of got screwed insurance company raised our rates 50%+ in a couple of years before the whole thing started to go into effect.

My husband and I's rates have skyrocketed as well - and they were already close to $300/month per person.