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Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by nostrademons on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @04:18PM (#10383177)
You don't see the people who are doing much better than their parents. The more self-aware of them know that there is nothing good that comes out of drawing attention to their good fortune. The less self-aware just assume that's how it is for everybody and don't think it's remarkable.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by verbin217 on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @05:22PM (#10383580)
> The more self-aware of them know that there is nothing good that comes out of drawing attention to their good fortune.

I'm part of this trend and I hate it. I have to be careful who I tell anything to. Many people dislike me for it. The world is so weird. I spend so much time pursuing utility via automation. It's so sad to see it mostly alienate people. Just as all of this stuff is becoming so easy and accessible. It has definitely crushed many childhood ideals. At a young age I observed a world in which people had to work too hard and couldn't focus on making good choices. I wanted them to have more time. Not less. It seems as if more and more people are entering a doom loop. Less aware. Less optimal. More time working. Less time learning. Less aware...

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by raould42 on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @08:05PM (#10384282)
Please do tell re: automation. The first thing that comes to mind is trading. Or cue cards a la http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_wo....
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by verbin217 on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @09:53PM (#10384581)
Just software development in general. I started programming to get my math homework done faster.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by roymurdock on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @05:17PM (#10383541)
Sure, but if people were moving up on aggregate, we would see the middle class growing as children of the poor made their way up. Instead, we see the middle class shrinking, the poor growing, and the wealth collecting to a smaller proportion of the population as families are being pushed down due to the recession.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by nostrademons on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @06:07PM (#10383808)
Be careful with the word "aggregate", it obscures a lot of the complexity of what's going on. In aggregate, for example, the average person will remain...average. That's not a useful conclusion when looking at absolute wealth (which nobody really cares about anyway - the working poor today have more information available to them than a corporate CEO did 20 years ago, yet it doesn't do much good for them), nor is it all that useful when predicting how to raise your social status (which a good number of people do care about).

What's really happening is that the class structure of society is being replaced entirely, similar to what happened during the industrial revolution. During the Renaissance, the class system consisted of landed aristocrats => merchants => guilds => working poor. The Industrial Revolution raised the productivity of certain industries so much that the owners of these machines displaced the previously wealthy class, leading to a class system of industrialist/financiers => unionized workers => non-union & service workers.

What's happening now is that "software is eating the world", and displacing the existing networks of production throughout the economy. That's leading to a class system of "those who own the data" (entrepreneurs & executives of large tech companies) => "those who work with the data" (software engineers, and likely hardware engineers & material scientists in the near future) => "everybody else". This transition has just begun, in the grand scheme of things; I'd estimate that we're at the equivalent of around 1900 on the Industrial Revolution timetable. The big losers likely won't be the middle class, who are probably the best positioned (in aggregate - see, it obscures a lot of relevant details) to move into the engineering class. The losers are likely to be the formerly wealthy, the descendants of the former owners & executives of old-line corporations. The landed aristocracy didn't make a great showing during the Industrial Revolution, and it's unlikely that the country-club set will make a great showing during the Information Revolution.

Pick where you want to be in the new world order, and work hard to get there. One thing capitalism definitely does reward is action. The old economic order has just been blown up, but few people realize it yet; that makes it the best time to build the new one.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by creamyhorror on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @09:49PM (#10384559)
I like the thrust of your argument, but from my perspective in Singapore/Asia, that's not quite what I see.

Big corporates are aggressively moving to dominate technology niches, while still dominating their existing verticals.

* All the banks have strong deal/shopping apps

* Property developers are continuing to build ever larger malls while investing in Amazon-like marketplaces (see Matahari Mall)

* Every big corporate is investing in external startups or growing internal startups and innovation divisions

* Practically all the big startup successes in Singapore, Indonesia and China are owned, often quite directly, by well-connected families or the state

Everyone's aggressively responding to the tech upstarts and trying to control their own turf.

The US-educated scions of well-connected families are especially responsible for techologising their behemoth family businesses and launching modern apps. New local players will have difficulty competing with old money's new generation of leaders.

In other words, what I see here in Asia is the entrenchment of old money. The market is saturated with new entrants, but the leaders are those who are backed by old money, simply because of the firepower that those connections give them. I think this is fundamentally different from the situation in the Valley, where more disinterested VCs (rather than old money) back the new horses.

My assessment is from the gut rather than statistical, so I'd love to be given an alternative view.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by srunni on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @11:45AM (#10387256)
> I like the thrust of your argument, but from my perspective in Singapore/Asia, that's not quite what I see...The US-educated scions of well-connected families are especially responsible for techologising their behemoth family businesses and launching modern apps.

This is exactly correct. The GP's post reminded me of The Coming Transformation, a report by VC firm Formation 8: http://formation8.com/resources/the-coming-transformation/

The report draws a similar comparison between the decline of the landed aristocracy during the Second Industrial Revolution and the coming decline of the industrial aristocracy due to "software eating the world."

However, Formation 8 is taking advantage of this opportunity: one of their partners is the scion of a Korean conglomerate, and he's no doubt leveraging his family ties to obtain buy-in from many other HNW families from all over Asia:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-05/why-formati...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-25/sun-yat-se...

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by eli_gottlieb on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @11:44PM (#10384903)
>What's happening now is that "software is eating the world", and displacing the existing networks of production throughout the economy. That's leading to a class system of "those who own the data" (entrepreneurs & executives of large tech companies) => "those who work with the data" (software engineers, and likely hardware engineers & material scientists in the near future) => "everybody else".

Unexplained data: $3500/month one-bedroom apartments in San Francisco. If technologists are on top of the hierarchy, why can't they get society to give them easier access to better housing?

Counter-hypothesis: because the rentier-owners of land, natural resources, and financial assets are actually still the ones on top.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by nostrademons on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @12:27AM (#10385036)
They do get society to give them easier access to better housing. That's what the rent is for. Being "on top of the hierarchy" doesn't mean that they can get access to everything for free; it means that they have enough money that they can spend it and write it off in exchange for the things they want.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by eli_gottlieb on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:56AM (#10386074)
I have not heard that tech salaries are nearly high enough to write off Bay Area rents as a negligible expense. Property-owners win again.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by fennecfoxen on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @06:35PM (#10383940)
> Sure, but if people were moving up on aggregate, we would see the middle class growing as children of the poor made their way up.

Eh, what you really want to look at is a series of cohorts moving on up as people grow older: a lot of US population growth is from immigration (legal and otherwise) who tend to have less income (which is why they immigrate), and from children born to recent immigrants (who have substantially more children than rich people in this country).

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by roymurdock on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @06:58PM (#10384042)
Ok, do you have the statistics at hand? What do they tell us?
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by toomuchtodo on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @02:47AM (#10385320)
Look at employment figures by age group and labor participation rate. You'll find that older people are working longer because they can't afford to retire.

Also, Google "calculated risk blog" and read the last 2 months or so of posts. Pay careful attention to the posts about reduced GDP due to demographics, as well as new household formations lagging due to structural economic issues.

TLDR Ain't nobody moving up in any cohorts. 70% of people make less than they did 12 years ago.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by zo1 on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @08:11PM (#10384299)
That sounds like it would only apply if the relative population growth of each group was similar. The statistics say it's not, even with child-mortality rates, the poor outnumber the rich and that gap is increasing in number.