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Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by caskance on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @02:42PM (#10382539)
What you're seeing is actually the opposite problem. That candidates aren't obsessed enough with a potential "false positive" hire where they end up working somewhere they don't actually want to work. You can't tell me that someone applying for 40 positions a week truly wants to work at all 40 of those places. Primarily, the candidate just wants any job he/she can get because of the fear of unemployment.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by cryoshon on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @02:58PM (#10382652)
"Fear of unemployment" is a necessary abstraction, but consider what unemployment actually means.

Let's say you are unemployed, and living with your parents-- a very common situation for this generation. You're getting bled each month by your student loans, even if you no other bills, which you probably do. The candidate wants to work at any one of those 40 places, because otherwise they go into default and ruin their credit and probably their parents' credit too.

If you don't live at home, the stakes are losing your apartment or car. This isn't some unreasonable fear; bills need to get paid, and there's an entire generation that is struggling to do so because their largest bill just won't go away.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by caskance on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @03:03PM (#10382693)
I'm not saying that people aren't justified in fearing unemployment. I'm just saying that fear pressures them into making suboptimal decisions. It's even worse because 99% of those people immediately stop looking for work, often with a huge sigh of relief, after they've found a stable job.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by tomp on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @05:08PM (#10383489)
> immediately stop looking for work [...] after they've found a stable job

As opposed to what?! Any potential employer will ask you in an interview, "Why are you looking to leave your job so soon?". What are you going to say? "Oh, I'm just trying to find something better." - a surefire way to instill trust in your interviewer and get hired /sarcasm.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by caskance on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @05:50PM (#10383730)
And anyone worried about not having a good answer to that question doesn't list the job they just started last month in their employment history.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by tomp on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @07:01PM (#10384050)
I'm not sure it's that easy... At least in the UK, the employer will sooner or later find out about your previous employment, because you'll need to give the new employer some PXX tax forms.

In any case, I'm not sure being unemployed is actually that much better.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by FilterSweep on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @03:19PM (#10382809)
> That candidates aren't obsessed enough with a potential "false positive" hire where they end up working somewhere they don't actually want to work. You can't tell me that someone applying for 40 positions a week truly wants to work at all 40 of those places.

This sounds like a whole lot of blaming the candidate. It also assumes that the candidate could even land one of those 40 positions in the first place. I applied to a whole lot more before I landed mine - as did most of my peers now in our early-mid 20s who didn't get swooped up in a career fair early on in the process.

You can't really tell me that someone applying for a job _in the first place_ truly wants to work (instead of pursuing a passion they like) period. More likely, the candidate doesn't want(keyword) to work at any of those 40 places at all. And here's the kicker:

The candidate should not be faulted for that if he or she is competent at the job and works hard.

The modern age has shown a lot of workers being faithful to their companies and having that faithfulness be an expected one-way street. Look at the firings of Disney and IBM Engineers. The Disney engineers had to even educate their replacements at reduced salary.

I'd love to be spending all my days producing music and building native iOS apps, but that's not how the world works. So, I work somewhere I tolerate working, somewhere I work well. And I count my blessings for it - not many millennials are as lucky as me.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by caskance on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @03:31PM (#10382893)
I have real trouble believing a competent developer can't find a job developing native iOS apps in this job market.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by FilterSweep on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @03:47PM (#10382995)
Why would I do something I truly love for someone elses dream?
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by jkaunisv1 on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @05:42PM (#10383689)
To gain experience? To learn the challenges & pitfalls of the field on someone else's dime? To learn from somebody who has been doing it and getting paid?

Nobody jumps from the bottom of the mountain to the top - you climb it one step at a time. There are people making a living producing music and writing apps - the world does work that way. I'm not saying tomorrow you can decide that's how you'll make a living and it'll happen - but it is something you can work towards and achieve in a reasonable amount of time.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by eric_h on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @05:49PM (#10383725)
To get better, learn how to run a business based on building such software so that you eventually have the resources to pursue your own dream.

Why would you not want to do that instead of a job which you admittedly feel rather "blah" about?

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by caskance on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @04:05PM (#10383094)
Presumably because you can't afford to pay rent doing it for your own.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by msandford on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @02:58PM (#10382657)
Right, but a real problem is that the HR "match the keywords" whack-a-mole filter is totally random! 10 years of experience for a framework that's only been around for 8 years means that only the liars qualify and the honest folks don't. You don't know how people are going to evaluate your resume but statistically a bunch of companies aren't going to grade people holistically.

But since you can't know a priori which company hires which way, the solution that people have settled on is to blast out a million resumes and hope that some make it past the keyword matchers and to actual human beings making hiring decisions. That's where the actual match-making takes place. But if you don't send out enough resumes to make it through the arbitrary, unpredictable filtering stage you don't make it to the matchmaking stage which means you're unemployed.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by caskance on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @03:09PM (#10382742)
It's a positive feedback loop. If it were not for pressure on applicants to find a job, any job, would every employer get bombarded by so many poorly written resumes that they would feel the need to implement such filters?
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by msandford on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @03:23PM (#10382835)
Yeah I'm not suggesting that the candidates are entirely innocent. But I think the companies share a bigger portion of the blame. If they didn't want to get a million responses they could do things to limit their responses to people who actually want the job like say not allowing people to apply online, or making people apply in person, or requiring a cover letter of a certain length, or whatever.

But what has happened is that the companies set up these online systems to ostensibly make their own lives easier. Candidates have responded to the environment that they live in and started resume spamming. Companies respond by using overly-precise keyword matching to filter out candidates, despite the unsuitability.

It's not as though job seekers started printing resumes by the thousands and sticking them to the door of every business in their town and the companies had to adapt to this by making online systems to reduce the crushing influx of paper.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by caskance on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @04:05PM (#10383087)
So are we back to blaming the internet and the modern interconnected society? I can accept that.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by msandford on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @05:28PM (#10383625)
Yup, the future sucks and the past was better!

Seriously though, I don't blame the internet or modern interconnected society anywhere. I say that companies should shoulder a larger portion of the blame for creating perverse incentives. Other than that, I'm just trying to describe the world as I see it.

Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by caskance on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @05:52PM (#10383739)
Your whole first paragraph came off as extremely luddite. Knowing that you didn't intend it as such, I'm not sure how to interpret it.
Re:The world needs at least 600M new jobs in the next decade... by msandford on Tuesday October 13, 2015 @07:54PM (#10384253)
There's a difference between pointing out the flaws of the new system and flatly denying any of its benefits.

Luddites would smash looms so that they could keep their old jobs; I'm merely suggesting that if companies don't want a million resumes for every open position there are things they could do -- which they are not currently doing -- to help with this.

The problem with email is that it's frictionless. It costs an immeasureably small amount of money to send an email so as long as there are some suckers out there who'll buy your penis pills, sending spam emails is profitable.

Similarly all the friction has been taken out of the "submitting a resume for a job" experience and companies are now getting deluged. That's probably not the optimal outcome for employers or job seekers, but the only people who have any power to change it are the employers. Job seekers don't have any real influence on the systems by which employers choose employees, at least not until they get hired and even then it's just about impossible.

The only knob job seekers have to turn is how many resumes they send out and there's little/no downside to sending out more so it's entirely unsurprising that they choose to do so.

Companies on the other hand have a bunch of knobs they can turn regarding how they accept resumes. They're choosing to turn none of them and dealing with the problem on the back-end (keyword matching) rather than the front-end (increasing friction). This leaves them with a quality problem because people aren't keywords and someone with a year too little of experience X might have more than enough actual skill with the thing you need. It's kind-of foolish to assume people all learn at the same rate, isn't it? But because of the quantity problem that employers have, they can't solve the quality problem because that would cost far, far too much. They'd have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on engineering time to try and find the close-but-not-exact-but-definitely-good-enough needles in the not-close-at-all resume haystack.

This is why various companies have tried all kinds of different recruiting tactics like Google's early days where you had to solve problems from billboards or how a lot of companies want to see your open source work or for you to take a coding quiz. That's solving the problem on the front end.

But for some reason not everyone has picked up on this and out of all the programming jobs in the world maybe only 10% (no idea, it's just a guess) get filled by people who solve the problem on the front end. Everyone else does it on the back end, and their methods for dealing with it that way are not up to the task. This is a well documented phenomena, there are countless articles on the subject.

http://www.cio.com/article/2398753/careers-staffing/5-inside...

http://www.today.com/money/how-employers-make-it-hard-find-g...