Well there are different ways to raise children, and while the theological arguments are fine, I was really wondering about the parents. I suspect, but can't prove, that every child at some time or another lies, cheats, steals, and generally tries to circumvent what is perceived to be "ridiculous" constraints on their behavior. And while a church might provide "rules" for behavior, I firmly believe it is up to the family to provide "why" for behavior. I spent many hours explaining the why of rules to my kids. And yes, some of that why came from teachings like "love thy neighbor as thyself" but most of it was common sense about making everyone's lives as enjoyable as possible rather than one person's life that enjoyable.

I'm sad these guys didn't learn that.