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Re:The model minority is losing patience by golemotron on Saturday October 03, 2015 @08:15AM (#10323580)
I was talking to someone just out of college the other day and she was adamant that reverse racism doesn't exist. To her it isn't racism unless it happens to a group lower in a power ordering. The exact position of groups in that ordering wasn't clear but it was clear that Asians were higher than other groups.

Identity politics is a very dehumanizing philosophy. It tells us that we must be seen through a label we can't change: our race, gender, or orientation.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by cousin_it on Saturday October 03, 2015 @08:34AM (#10323620)
Yeah. The ultimate goal of such redefinitions is to imply that some groups' problems are inherently more important, more worth addressing. But that's not true. All suffering is suffering.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by memonkey on Saturday October 03, 2015 @12:15PM (#10324361)
I don't know. Is going to jail based on your race suffering more or less than not getting into Harvard because of your race? I tend to agree with OP's comment, but one important aspect is left out when talking about things like this: Class.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by omonra on Saturday October 03, 2015 @03:41PM (#10325087)
I'd like to call out your casual mentioning of someone's race being responsible for them going to jail. That's not really what happens - rather that someone breaks the law and goes to jail.

I'm not aware of law-abiding members of any race going to jail (while the article demonstrates that Asians who do everything same as whites or blacks have no chance of getting into Harvard).

Re:The model minority is losing patience by jackpirate on Saturday October 03, 2015 @07:03PM (#10325746)
Everyone breaks the law. Some people get disproportionate punishment. So while your statement is true, it entirely misses the point.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by omonra on Sunday October 04, 2015 @01:16AM (#10326570)
This is a factually unsupported assertion.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/miarticle.htm?id=458...

Re:The model minority is losing patience by jackpirate on Sunday October 04, 2015 @03:09AM (#10326763)
From your article:

> In 2006, the black arrest rate for most crimes was two to nearly three times blacks’ representation in the population. Blacks constituted 39.3% of all violent-crime arrests, including 56.3% of all robbery and 34.5% of all aggravated-assault arrests, and 29.4% of all property-crime arrests.

This paragraph is presupposing that the arrest process is fair to assert that blacks deserve their higher prison sentences.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by omonra on Sunday October 04, 2015 @02:57PM (#10328409)
I'm not sure if you missed these two points:

"From 1976 to 2005, blacks committed more than 52% of all murders in America."

and

"The advocates acknowledge such crime data only indirectly: by charging bias on the part of the system’s decision makers. As Obama suggested in the Martin Luther King debate, police, prosecutors and judges treat blacks and whites differently “for the same crime.”

But in fact, cops don’t over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. The race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports."

The simple truth of the matter (which our entire discussion boils down to) is that blacks commit crime at a rate vastly exceeding other groups. For more stats please see: http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-lib...

Re:The model minority is losing patience by mazerackham on Tuesday October 06, 2015 @02:28AM (#10337038)
Lol, I believe that cops DEFINITELY over-arrest blacks. After Ferguson and a huge WAVE of black people dying unfairly at the hands of police officers, you can read a lot of articles online where highly educated black men (ivy league) write about how they get pulled over by a cop once every 1-2 weeks for NOTHING (except for being black).

Think about that, once every 1-2 weeks. I've been pulled over 3 times in my life. Twice for speeding, once for a broken tail light.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by omonra on Tuesday October 06, 2015 @02:59AM (#10337122)
1. I'm not sure why you bring up Ferguson when the guy was clearly in the wrong. Ie he got killed because he fought the cop for his gun (which went off inside the car) and then charged at him.

Ie someone who jumps out a 10th story window can't blame the oppressive "gravity" for causing their death.

2. That said, I take your point that educated black men may be unfairly targeted for being pulled over. Yet I don't see how someone being pulled over results in their arrest, let alone conviction of a crime which they did not commit.

That's the issue - not that someone gets pulled over every couple of weeks (unpleasant but hardly life-altering) but that huge number of men are in prison for actually committing crime.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by mazerackham on Tuesday October 06, 2015 @03:13AM (#10337170)
1. As all the controversy shows, he wasn't "clearly in the wrong". Neither was Eric Gardner, that guy who got choked out, nor all the other cases, the names of whom I started to forget because the reporting became so common place, i.e. it was happening all the time.

2. So let's say a white person and a black person in a car have the same rate of performing a crime (let's say smoking marijuana, a harmless pastime enjoyed by all races). Let's say that if a cop pulls you over while you are smoking marijuana, then you will be arrested. Well if a cop is twice as likely to pull you over if you are black, then there will be twice as many black arrests. This is a simplistic model and doesn't even factor situations where a black person gets pulled over, and definitely gets forced out of his car, handcuffed, and searched, whereas a white person might be able to cordially get away with a smile and a "Yessir".

Re:The model minority is losing patience by omonra on Wednesday October 07, 2015 @01:37AM (#10344338)
1. The only thing that controversy showed is that Mainstream Media is bending over backward to accommodate black race baiters.

If you read the report that explains in great detail what happened (as opposed to just saying 'well, there's no smoke without fire') - you will see what I mean: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-mi...

Eric Gardner was indeed a completely different case. His death was an unfortunate accident. The cop did not intend to kill him - he was looking for a way to subdue a very large man. I do agree that under normal circumstances it should be treated as manslaughter (ie unintended killing).

2. Your scenario is missing a very important point. I'm not saying that black arrest rates are much higher, hence this proves criminality.

Rather the rates for being convicted for serious crimes (like murder) is off the charts. Likewise victim reports of the race of crime perpetrators matches the conviction stats.

So basically the innocent black guys who just smoked weed in a car and happened to be pulled over because they're black are not going to jail for it (maybe a fine at most).

Re:The model minority is losing patience by caseysoftware on Saturday October 03, 2015 @10:49AM (#10324068)
It has become the Oppression Special Olympics.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by chiaro on Saturday October 03, 2015 @09:51AM (#10323879)
That's just a misunderstanding over the definition. Racism as a subject of study in the humanities refers to these societal power structures, and it was this definition and usage she was probably cleaving to.

The world would definitely be a better if we didn't recognize labels, but since I kind of hit the trifecta as far as race, gender etc goes, I fit into society just fine. Those who feel marginalised by society for one reason or another can find solidarity and reaffirmation of their identity using these labels, and I can't really deny them that.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by golemotron on Saturday October 03, 2015 @10:33AM (#10324018)
It's very hard to believe that this redefinition of the word racism was done innocently. On its face racism is act of distinguishing people by race for favor or disfavor. When it is redefined as it has been in the humanities it leaves a vacuum. There's no longer a word for the concept that racism originally referred to.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by chiaro on Saturday October 03, 2015 @11:03AM (#10324124)
It's not taking anything away--both definitions are valid and commonly used. It's just up to the pair of you to realize you're talking past each other. She'd probably have no trouble agreeing that white people can be the target of bigotry just as you'd agree that white people are rarely at the pointy end of broader systemic injustices, at least in this society.

Much as it may be fun, I'd caution against attributing it some kind of conspiracy of sociologists.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by smokeyj on Saturday October 03, 2015 @12:11PM (#10324348)
> both definitions are valid and commonly used

In my experience there's one definition used by the general public, and another used by social justice warrior academic types to prove they have a more mindful world view than you. But that's just my experience.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by dropit_sphere on Saturday October 03, 2015 @05:10PM (#10325392)
There needn't be a conspiracy. An evolved motte-and-bailey strategy is bad enough as it is.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by dnr on Saturday October 03, 2015 @02:39PM (#10324899)
Discrimination is a pretty good word. That's the one they use for things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-discrimination_law
Re:The model minority is losing patience by kenjackson on Saturday October 03, 2015 @10:57AM (#10324096)
Its true there is no single word, but I think in this circle they use terms for this. Racial discrimination or prejudice.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by czep on Saturday October 03, 2015 @11:46AM (#10324270)
Just because you learned of it just now doesn't make it a "re-definition". Who gave you the right to call your definition the real one?
Re:The model minority is losing patience by Kalium on Saturday October 03, 2015 @12:09PM (#10324341)
The English language is one where words are defined by popular usage. Who gave you the right to call the definition you prefer the real one?
Re:The model minority is losing patience by damagedcake on Saturday October 03, 2015 @08:39PM (#10325970)
Not that I completely disagree; but the problem with this definition, on a practical level, is that it seems to cause more harm than good. Identity politics have prevented our country from having an actual conversation on race since those of us in the majority are effectively not allowed into the conversation. So if there are two sides of an issue and one side is not allowed in the discussion then there is . . . no discussion.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by huac on Saturday October 03, 2015 @08:25AM (#10323600)
You have it backwards - just because others see us through a particular, limiting lens, doesn't mean that we are defined in that way. Understanding that these stereotypes exist is in no way dehumanizing.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by golemotron on Saturday October 03, 2015 @10:35AM (#10324024)
Maybe you should ask the people referred to in the article.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by auganov on Saturday October 03, 2015 @12:33PM (#10324406)
Identity politics unquestionably applied to individuals is indeed dehumanizing. I hope we move towards an opt-in culture, where it's considered bad behavior to attach identities to individuals without them opting in.
Re:The model minority is losing patience by canjobear on Saturday October 03, 2015 @01:26PM (#10324583)
The claim of identity politics isn't that we must be seen through those labels, but rather that in present society we _actually are_ always seen through those labels and we should acknowledge it in our language. Only by acknowledging it can we begin to fight it.

I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but that's the claim as I understand it.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by bobthechef on Saturday October 03, 2015 @12:13PM (#10324356)
I may be mincing words, but I've heard the last sentence frequently enough that I have to respond.

What does the ability to change a "label" have to do with anything? Just because you can't change something doesn't mean it isn't relevant. Just because something can be changed doesn't mean it is.

Re:The model minority is losing patience by heptathorp on Saturday October 03, 2015 @01:43PM (#10324667)
Well, she's half-right. There is no such thing as reverse racism. It's just plain racism.