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Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by ck2 on Friday September 25, 2015 @01:16PM (#10279368)
solution: Deploy HSTS on top-level domain

yeah easy for you to say

Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by blfr on Friday September 25, 2015 @01:20PM (#10279389)
Why? What's hard about HSTS? Although they don't include subdomains.
Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by michaelt on Friday September 25, 2015 @02:16PM (#10279740)

  What's hard about HSTS?
Getting everyone in a large organisation to do it properly.

Look at [1] - in particular, look at the list of Google affiliated domains that don't include "include_subdomains": true, "mode": "force-https"

blogger.com, youtube.com, gmail.com, google.co.uk, doubleclick.net

Google isn't short of competent employees, and they obviously acknowledge the importance of hsts having played a big part in creating it, yet they don't have it turned on. Evidently, getting a single header turned on in a large organisation must be a complicated matter!

[1] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/net/+/master/...

Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by LoSboccacc on Friday September 25, 2015 @01:27PM (#10279433)
not really hard but a limit of HSTS in this particular scenario is that it doesn't automatically redirect you to https if it is the first visit to the web site, which means if the http channel is compromised (the scenario calls for MTM) the hsts can't do anything to fix it (you can simply strip the 302 locations or tell the server that the other endpoint is talking https).

only returning visitor will be redirected client side and only if they saw at some point the HSTS header over https.

Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by aianus on Friday September 25, 2015 @01:48PM (#10279573)
Please see the above comment from toomuchtodo about HSTS preloading.
Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by LoSboccacc on Friday September 25, 2015 @01:54PM (#10279604)
hey that's great! didn't know there was such a process. will list all my stuff. thanks!
Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by McRask on Friday September 25, 2015 @01:31PM (#10279466)
There is still the issue of trust on first use. Unless the domain is preloaded in the browser as HSTS there is no assurance that there won't be at least one HTTP request.
Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by toomuchtodo on Friday September 25, 2015 @01:46PM (#10279558)
https://hstspreload.appspot.com/

Took five minutes to configure the preload directive for HSTS in our nginx headers and submit our domain.

Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by pas on Friday September 25, 2015 @02:56PM (#10279977)
DNSSEC, TLS DANE is the proper solution for this.
Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by MichaelGG on Friday September 25, 2015 @04:11PM (#10280417)
DNSSEC means creating irrevocable CAs that'd be under essentially-direct control of major governments. No thanks. At least with the current system, if a CA fails to act proper, they can get smacked back. With DNSSEC, if .com starts issuing *.com certs, there's no recourse.
Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by pas on Saturday September 26, 2015 @01:30PM (#10283706)
Huh? Your site can be already completely hijacked by the same actors. Your browser trusts a lot of CAs so VeriSign (or whoever operates the .com zone) can already issue .com certs. And your only hope is to preload your cert (which is a Chrome only thing, and pretty inefficient and inflexible).

The Convergence Project with notaries is an even better solution.

But using the DNS as the authoritative source of data and using external parties to keep an eye on that would both lead to efficiency (performance, flexibility) and security (as in from the State).

Re:Cookies Lack Integrity: Real-World Implications by aianus on Friday September 25, 2015 @04:49PM (#10280592)
No, Namecoin is the proper solution to this.

DNSSEC is not safe:

1. It requires centralized trust which can be exploited by governments.

2. It still leaves your domain and PKI in the hands of incompetent rent-seeking registrars who can and do get socially engineered all the time.