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Re:NASA Struggles Over Deep-Space Plutonium Power by logfromblammo on Tuesday September 15, 2015 @01:10PM (#10221761)
Have you ever played a game after reading the rules and determining that it is mathematically impossible for you to win?

Politics will never cease to be a complete waste of time for some people until the rules are changed such that all evidence of their participation is not completely eradicated before the results are determined.

Should all those people who vote Green or Libertarian or Constitution parties in their U.S. elections just double down on their efforts and vote harder? Should they steer even more conversations into long-winded tirades about politics?

I have sampled the "getting more involved" tactic. It is worse than a waste of time. Sometimes you suffer retaliation for "rubbing the cat the wrong way". If you want to make a difference, vote with your feet, and vote with your wallet. Voting with your vote only lends support to those who believe that voting means you must meekly accept the results.

It seems odd to suggest that if you hate something, you should do it more. If you truly despite politics, you should be exploring other means to accomplish your goals. Start a nonprofit business. Create an advocacy group. Create a community nexus for like-minded individuals to trade ideas. Write a book that browbeats your personal opinions into the reader with the help of a flimsy sci-fi plot line. Hell, create a for-profit business, and spend the profits on the thing you wanted the government to do.

Re:NASA Struggles Over Deep-Space Plutonium Power by baldfat on Tuesday September 15, 2015 @01:54PM (#10222089)
> I have sampled the "getting more involved" tactic. It is worse than a waste of time.

Well than kill democracy and invent a new government system. Voting is the most important part of a Democracy.

To what end is your point now? No one voting but a few and they decide the election????

"I hate politics!" does not mean I hate voting. Voting is making your statement of yes or no.

> Sometimes you suffer retaliation for "rubbing the cat the wrong way". Voting is silent and no one knows what you voted for.

If you live in a Democracy you have to vote. If you are fine with Democracy dying than don't vote especially in local elections.

Re:NASA Struggles Over Deep-Space Plutonium Power by logfromblammo on Tuesday September 15, 2015 @02:43PM (#10222434)
I do hope you realize that there is far more to politics than the voting part. By the time anyone even sees a ballot, dozens of meetings have already been conducted, both public and private. Participation in those meetings has a far greater effect than the results of the subsequent vote.

Parliamentary procedures and rules of order are routinely used to prevent proposals from ever getting to a vote.

Don't conflate voting with democracy. It is but one element in a much larger tangle of worms, and it is emphatically not the most important.

If you ever do more in politics than just show up to mark ballots, you may see the retaliation in action. The cloud video services have plenty of examples, mostly from open records activists who do little more than just show up to public places with their cameras.

Protests, complaints, and petitions for redress are also part of democracy. Have you ever walked in to a police station and asked for an official complaint form? Depending on your locale, that may be a very easy way to experience petty retaliation firsthand.

Re:NASA Struggles Over Deep-Space Plutonium Power by baldfat on Tuesday September 15, 2015 @02:58PM (#10222507)
Protests, complaints, and petitions for redress are also part of democracy - YES, YES and YES! To what purpose? To change votes either on the Democratic side (Elections) or the Republican side (Our representatives that we elected). Sure we have the court system but that is decided by a few to balance our government system. It is voting that the VAST majority are trying to do. FCC we protested in the US and that changed the FCC's VOTE. They were appointed by elected officials who were scared of what? Re-election.

If you don't vote the rest really doesn't matter that much.

If someone is complaining about government the first thing I ask is "Do you vote?" Voting is the Democratic government system by its very definition. If you say you don't vote I really (Wrongly) don't want to hear any complaints because you removed yourself from our political system. We are in crisis in United States due to lack of voting to the point where only extremist vote and the majority voluntarily hand over the political powers to extremist. This is why reasonable people have a hard time getting past the primaries in national elections i.e. Trump's popularity is decided by extremist. The MORE people vote the weaker extremist voices matter.

Re:NASA Struggles Over Deep-Space Plutonium Power by logfromblammo on Tuesday September 15, 2015 @03:51PM (#10222753)
Let me put it this way. Voting in the U.S. is like choosing between Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola. Sometimes you also get the option of RC Cola, or Tab.

You hear someone say, "But I don't like colas." And your response is, "You still need to drink one, so pick."

If you don't vote, it could just be because you feel that every option is equally bad. People decline to vote for a variety of reasons, but not having any appealing options is certainly a very common one.

I personally don't even know the difference between Coke and Pepsi. I like grapefruit juice. If a saw orange juice--or even apple juice--on the ballot, I might vote for it. But year after year, it's always cola versus cola. My concern is if I vote for one or the other, someone might think that's what I actually wanted. I think there are a lot of other people out there that do vote for a cola when they actually want beer, or tea, or water, or purple drank, or merlot, or lemonade, or vodka. So when they see a Mr. Pibb or a Dr. Pepper in the wings, they jump on that like a Fremen after a week in the desert with a torn stillsuit.

Trump's popularity derives from the enforced homogeneity of the elections. Neither major party wants to allow a fringe candidate, because they think those extremists that would otherwise peel away should be voting for them. So they have both painted themselves into the same corner.

Maybe you should follow up that "Do you vote?" question with "Do you actually want the things you vote for?" My opinion is that if you cannot vote for something you want, the vote is not democratic. It becomes a cargo cult ritual in imitation of democracy.

The crisis is not lack of voting. It is that people can no longer effectively express their will through voting. And that came about due to politics as usual. Gerrymandering. Restrictive ballot access laws. Winner takes all elections. Pre-primary deal-brokering. Media spin.

So thanks for your opinion on the importance of voting, but I simply don't see it that way. There are more options for you to choose from than those that are laid out for you. Sometimes you just have to kick over the cups and stab the giant in the eye.

Re:NASA Struggles Over Deep-Space Plutonium Power by baldfat on Wednesday September 16, 2015 @10:22AM (#10226786)
Well that is a great reply to the two party system we have in America that sadly I won't see changed in my life time.

That is why it is important to be an influence with the vote.

I never pull the party lever but I also know local politics really is the foundation for our political system and if you like Cherry Coke let your local politician know what you want. Heck follow them on FaceBook and talk with them.

Re:NASA Struggles Over Deep-Space Plutonium Power by logfromblammo on Thursday September 17, 2015 @02:30PM (#10235214)
If you like Cherry Coke, your local politician will smile and nod, blithely registering your support for Coke over Pepsi. If you like grapefruit juice, your local politician will tell you to FOAD, knowing with full confidence that he or she already got elected without your support, and you're not likely to support anyone that stands a chance of beating them, so there's no need to do anything to court you.

Non-cola-likers have always fared better with protest demonstrations, news media publicity, and rights-based lawsuits. Voting has done nothing.

With the entrenched structure of the system in place, any issue that is not likely to switch your vote from Coke to Pepsi, or vice versa, can be safely ignored. Don't like that much sugar/HFCS? Ignored. Don't like carbonation? Ignored. Don't like caramel color? Ignored. Don't like phosphoric acid? Ignored. But if you like Cherry Coke better than regular Coke, well then Pepsi might just trial-run a Lemon Pepsi! Do I vote for that because it is closer to grapefruit juice than anything else on the ballot, or not vote for it because it's still just another falalahking cola?

The only group likely to make even a tiny dent in the status quo of Beverageland is the people who like coffee. But coffee never stands for election. Nobody ever even considers that coffee might be better than any cola. What does this mean metaphorically? I don't know; it ran away from me there.

Re:NASA Struggles Over Deep-Space Plutonium Power by Retra on Tuesday September 15, 2015 @04:36PM (#10222998)
Running for office is the most important part of a democracy.

It's also unreasonably expensive today.