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Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by tokenadult on Tuesday December 29, 2009 @08:15PM (#1021709)
Perhaps a way to balance this is making flagging (up or down) cost karma points, but that would lead to them (KPs) being visible to give immediate feedback on the user's actions.

I asked last week

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1006946

whether attempts to make the site better, which is what many downvotes and flags currently are, ought not to be rewarded with MORE karma rather than less. I think people who clean up the trash should be paid for their work.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by kburn on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @11:42PM (#1023832)
The flag mechanism already exists to deal with true trash if I'm not mistaken.

It seems to me, respectfully, that using the downvote to try and clean the community is like a small-town sheriff trying to keep the perceived riff-raff of city-slickers, with their strange ways and funny hair, out of his community.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by rbanffy on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @07:48AM (#1022340)
"I think people who clean up the trash should be paid for their work."

I think a bigger danger is the suppression of dissent. Rewarding it with more karma would be a huge mistake.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by tokenadult on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @01:02PM (#1022833)
Dissenting from your opinion in what I hope will be a civil, constructive manner, I agree with you that once in a while I get downvotes solely because I am expressing an unpopular opinion. But that is rare. And I don't shy from expressing minority opinions here on several issues. I don't get a large number of downvotes at all. My two comments with the largest net number of downvotes were (to me, in hindsight) comments that I could have written more clearly with more effort at relating them to the main concern of the thread and adding new information to the thread. On the whole, I think most downvotes are adding quality of expression to the site rather than subtracting opinions from the site. There are a lot of strong opinions here, not all of them in unison, and a lot of those opinions get expressed here.

By the way, it's an EMPIRICAL question whether downvotes or posting disagreeing replies does more to discourage expressions of certain opinions. It seems to me that someone thin-skinned enough to cease posting his opinions because his comments get downvoted (rather than reconsidering how he comments and seeing if he can improve how he comments) might be just as discouraged from posting minority opinions if he sees a lot of replies that disagree with him. If a person has courage of his convictions because his opinions are based on evidence and careful thought, there is little reason not to come back here and express the opinions, even if his comments don't get a huge number of net upvotes.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by kburn on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @11:47PM (#1023843)
> It seems to me that someone thin-skinned enough to cease posting his opinions because his comments get downvoted (rather than reconsidering how he comments and seeing if he can improve how he comments) might be just as discouraged from posting minority opinions if he sees a lot of replies that disagree with him.

I respectfully disagree. A downmod supplies almost zero feedback to the recipient. Many posts I've seen with negative mod scores are complex and have a number of topics in them. A downvote at no time explains what precisely was wrong with the post.

It's like a presidential candidate not getting a vote, he doesn't know what part of his platform lost him the vote, just that he didn't get it.

In real life a candidate can pay for a poll and find out why, here it seems that asking why immediately results in more downmods.

(I admit the analogy is imperfect, but hopefully you see where I'm trying to go with it).