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Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by chrischen on Tuesday December 29, 2009 @04:34PM (#1021371)
Irrelevance can simply be ignored, or if necessary, flagged. It can then sink to the bottom of the page with little consequence.

But a down-vote has negative social consequences. It affects the types of comment that show up and shapes and refines the tone here so that eventually only the popular types show up.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by akkartik on Tuesday December 29, 2009 @05:02PM (#1021414)
I see irrelevant but funny/praising/criticising comments upvoted to +4 or even +14 all the time.[1]

The assumption that bad comments will get less votes is a canard. As the community grows, the same people adding comments also add their votes. If anything, they're more likely to vote since it's just a click, and so noob votes will drown old users even more. It's not just downvotes but any votes that have negative social consequences.

Update

[1] Exhibit A: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1021157

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by elblanco on Tuesday December 29, 2009 @05:06PM (#1021424)
This is an important point.

>It's not just downvotes but any votes that have negative social consequences.

Upvotes also tend to select for popular modes of thinking. In the end, a system of only upvotes makes people want to only post things that will be perceived as popular by the community.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by chrischen on Tuesday December 29, 2009 @05:39PM (#1021487)
Yes true, but it is at least positive reinforcement, whereas downvoting is negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is conditioning through fear. So ignoring the potential ethical problems of conditioning through fear, there have been studies to show that positive reinforcement is better: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4924/1/V63N02_087.p...
Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by elblanco on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @08:11AM (#1022360)
That's a bit alarmist, but I can't really think of a better way to put it I guess.

Positive reinforcement does have the advantage of encouraging more participation.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by kburn on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @11:27PM (#1023801)
I can say, as a new guy, that I would participate more if that were the case.
Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by elblanco on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @03:26PM (#1023153)
> [1] Exhibit A: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1021157

This is one of the rare cases where humor bought upvotes. I'd say for every 10 evenly mildly humorous comments, 9 of them are voted down.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by akkartik on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @09:40PM (#1023698)
I agree. And the upvoted humor needs to be relatively good to get past our collective restraint. A few days ago I instinctively clicked on a funny comment before regretting it; that prob happens to a lot of folks.

But a) I see a couple of upvoted funnies everyday, and b) things are worse than they were a year ago. I'm joining in the fuss about it in hopes that we can stem the rot.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by elblanco on Tuesday December 29, 2009 @05:04PM (#1021420)
At risk of being downvoted even more, this is precisely the type of communal degradation we saw on digg and then reddit.

On digg the average quality of the posts dropped to near youtube levels, and on reddit the community fractured to extremes of opinion.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by chrischen on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @03:23PM (#1023149)
Don't be afraid to post what you think.
Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by elblanco on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @04:36PM (#1023275)
Considering the downvote patrol knocked 10% off of my karma just yesterday when I posted essentially that "people abuse downvoting, it has consequences and I don't like it". I am absolutely afraid to post what I think.

When I did get a response as to why, the self-justifications were fairly alarming.

Of course, if you notice it doesn't stop me, but that's because I'm a stubborn stick in the mud. I suspect that loads of people who are not as thick skinned as I am are afraid.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by chrischen on Wednesday December 30, 2009 @09:23PM (#1023687)
Exactly I think this is the most dangerous aspect of downvoting that really overshadows any other negative implication of removing downvoting.

I mean if you weren't upvoted, I doubt that would discourage you from posting stuff.

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by jodrellblank on Thursday December 31, 2009 @04:43PM (#1025044)
> I am absolutely afraid to post what I think

Why? What have you to fear from being down voted?

Re:Welcome to HN: A refresher course on how to disagree... ... by chrischen on Thursday December 31, 2009 @10:05PM (#1025400)
He has nothing to fear but fear itself. That and disapproval I'd presume.