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Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by spacehome on Thursday September 10, 2015 @06:36PM (#10200986)
Einstein had amazingly good intuition for the character of physical laws, i.e. what shape the laws of physics must necessarily take. And in this case he was right, too. God doesn't play dice; the universe is deterministic. Unfortunately, he didn't stumble upon the right answer, Many Worlds. I sometimes wonder how much longer it will take popular science writers to stumble upon it, too.
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by trhway on Thursday September 10, 2015 @06:52PM (#10201050)
>he didn't stumble upon the right answer, Many Worlds.

i hope you're joking. Many Worlds to treat the alleged indeterminisity is like cutting the head off to treat an acne.

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by fizx on Thursday September 10, 2015 @09:17PM (#10201499)
The popsci version of Many Worlds is terrible, because it implies that some sort of meta-conservation laws are violated in the creation of all of these universes. (where do all the universes come from?)

This is simply just bad explanation of perfectly reasonable math. This happens all the time with fundamental physics. Unfortunately the bad explanations persist, because coming up with good nuanced metaphors is hard, and they tend to be harder to communicate.

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by spacehome on Thursday September 10, 2015 @07:39PM (#10201210)
Haha, no, not joking.

Many worlds is by far the best hypothesis to date.

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by anigbrowl on Thursday September 10, 2015 @08:00PM (#10201279)
I have known about MW for 25 years or more, thanks to popular science writers. I don't see it getting more traction than it already has absent some way to falsify it. It's stylish from a distance, but like imaginary numbers, you should tidy up your multiverse when you are done playing with it.
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by spacehome on Thursday September 10, 2015 @10:47PM (#10201736)
That's a common criticism, but many-worlds is a consequence of a theory, not a theory itself. Plus all the other candidates are worse. (And Copenhagen isn't really a theory at all since it never gets around to defining what a 'measurement' is.)
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by millstone on Friday September 11, 2015 @02:38AM (#10202296)
Many worlds requires postulates (Everett's word!) that are not a consequence of theory, in particular that the wavefunction is an objective property of a particle. This is very much in dispute, and is rejected by the ensemble interpretation, consistent histories, etc.

I don't agree that those interpretations are inferior to MWI. In particular those theories postulate that the world is essentially probabilistic, and so do not have MWI's trouble with predicting probabilities.

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by DavidPlumpton on Friday September 11, 2015 @05:00AM (#10202677)
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by trhway on Thursday September 10, 2015 @07:53PM (#10201260)
>Many worlds is by far the best hypothesis to date.

well, to me it actually works in the opposite direction, like prove by contradiction - if the Many Worlds is the best/logical/natural consequence of the indeterministic view of QM than the indeterministic view is definitely have to be overturned.

All the Bell experiments i read about so far have obvious gaps allowing for obvious explanations. And if you take the latest one, the heralded loop-free, then there is obvious question - why didn't they published the statistics of the unconnected, non-entangled runs? I mean it is obvious from current QM orthodoxy that non-entangled runs wouldn't produce S>2, yet from alternative, locally-realistic, experiment result explanations the S>2 would be produced in that case too (the S>2 isn't possible in the locally realistic world, yet it is possible to locally realistically explain S>2 in all the Bell experiments that so far i've seen)

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by eigenket on Thursday September 10, 2015 @08:01PM (#10201286)
Many worlds is not a logical consequence of the non-deterministic view of quantum mechanics. One of the reasons cited in favour of the MWI is that it is wholly deterministic. That is probability doesn't appear at all in it's framework. This is much more in keeping with previous physical theories (Newtonian mechanics and Maxwell's laws of electrodynamics for example) which were also wholly deterministic.

If you're interested other reasons the MWI is often considered "nice" is that it is: linear, local, causal, realist, entirely unitary and in some sense (this is often disputed) minimal. Other interpretations have to add mechanisms (for example wavefunction collapse) in a rather ad-hoc way in order to stop many worlds happening.

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by millstone on Friday September 11, 2015 @02:16AM (#10202255)
That is also one of the most common critiques: because MWI is wholly deterministic, there is no way for probability to arise in it, and therefore no way to derive probabilistic phenomena like the Born Rule.
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by spacehome on Thursday September 10, 2015 @11:46PM (#10201918)
Many worlds is a consequence of the idea that the laws of physics apply equally to physicists and experimental apparati as they do to the particles under study.
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by dankohn1 on Friday September 11, 2015 @06:19AM (#10202906)
But the Many Worlds hypothesis is responsible for superb Star Trek episodes: http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Parallels_(episode)
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by joefkelley on Thursday September 10, 2015 @08:42PM (#10201395)
I think the trouble arises when you try to connect that to consciousness and human experience. From my perspective ("me" being the version in me in the "current" universe or whatever), I only experience one timeline, and so the universe appears totally nondeterministic. What use is this to science or even philosophy?

I disagree that Einstein's intuition carried him through quantum mechanics. I rather think that history shows him to be probably on the wrong side of the EPR/Copenhagen split. Not only did he cling to determinism (and I think he would have believed in something stronger than MW, which is a sort of very-weak determinism) but he also constantly objected to "spooky action at a distance" aka quantum entanglement which has now been very well observed.

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by spacehome on Thursday September 10, 2015 @11:13PM (#10201821)
It is true that Einstein was wrong about his insistence that there must be hidden variables, but I'm not so sure I would call him on the wrong side of the debate, as the correct hypothesis wasn't available during his lifetime. I wonder what he would have done with it had he heard about it.

Einstein's objection to spooky action at a distance and clinging to determinism is exactly the kind of thing to point to when trying to explain his amazingly good intuition for the character of physical law. He was 100% right about the action at a distance not being real and physics being deterministic. To be clear, entanglement is real, but there's no effect that happens at faster than lightspeed; the resolution to this is, of course, MWI.

As for what use there is - the primary use is that we can all stop being confused about this. And stop thinking that just because quantum physics is mysterious, it must necessarily be connected to other concepts that are mysterious too, like consciousness. And when else would we question the justification for learning the truth of what we all and the universe are made of?

(P.S. In what sense do you believe that MWI is very-weak determinism? It's deterministic through and through.)

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by mirimir on Friday September 11, 2015 @04:16AM (#10202535)
Maybe we only experience one timeline, but we can imagine many. And maybe there's leakage among them at small scales. But I'm not a physicist. I just enjoy SF. Anyway, for those interested in such matters, I recommend Anathem by Neal Stephenson, and Diaspora by Greg Egan :)
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by omalleyt on Friday September 11, 2015 @11:20AM (#10204154)
Many Worlds? That just abstracts the probability one step further, ie why am I in THIS world and not the other one (or if you prefer, why did my universe experience the string of events A-C-C-A-B and not A-C-C-A-A)?

The deterministic solution to quantum mechanics is Pilot Wave theory. It can explain nearly all quantum weirdness. Spacetime vibrates.

Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by danharaj on Thursday September 10, 2015 @08:19PM (#10201332)
The relational interpretation is much more intuitive without any of the ontological extravagance.
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by eli_gottlieb on Thursday September 10, 2015 @10:29PM (#10201679)
Replying to cancel an accidental downvote.
Re:Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity by gohrt on Friday September 11, 2015 @04:29AM (#10202595)
Is there any conceivable experiment to prove or disprove MWI is true. I'd think not, since it has "I"nterpretation in it.