> a bit more effort on repelling socially retarded men

What would she suggest? Gaswagen?

A lot of what gets called "social retarded" behavior results from high-functioning autism, and isn't really curable. Working with computers is a final refuge for many people who for one reason or another are treated like revolting mutants by the rest of humanity.

So instead of having highly rewarding and productive computing careers, these socially retarded men should do what instead? Become criminals perhaps?

I don't accept your premise. Very few people have highly rewarding and productive careers when they are socially retarded. Inversely, a little social etiquette never hurt anyone.

The culture of computer science is currently unique, in that it gives the seed of antisocial behavior a fertile place to take root. That doesn't mean that antisocial behavior should be encouraged or accepted.

Maybe there's a good reason why so many computer programmers are antisocial. Maybe it takes an antisocial person to devote the enormous amounts of time and effort required to write non-trivial programs.

Also, computer technology may make most people anti-social. Consider for example flamewars that would never take place off-line.

I don't know if I buy that, either...is jwz anti-social? pmarca? pg? Joel (of on-software fame)?

My personal experience has been that the best programmers have a large personality overlap with the best visual artists and musicians. That's not necessarily well-adjusted (crazy intensity and burnout often go along for the ride), but it's not anti-social either...certainly, you can't very well argue that artistic careers are unappealing to women!

In any case, my gut instinct is that computer programmers tend to be anti-social, because anti-social people are drawn to careers that involve minimal human interaction. The computer gives anti-social tendencies room to grow, but I don't think it causes the problem.

You're retarded if you don't think that programming is one of the most anti-social activities in existence. You only know of those people you list because they are successful writers. That has absolutely nothing with how good they are at programming.

Further, if you think that schools have an substantial share of the blame for women getting into programming, then your misunderstanding of the topic is even greater.

Thanks for providing a great example of what we're talking about, Steve.

thanks and I'm not steve.

Why? Experts in other fields have no reputation for being socially retarded, and yet they must have to devote enormous amounts of time and effort as well. Do you think da Vinci allowed himself to become socially retarded so he could focus on drawing and inventing, or that Erdos decided to isolate himself from other people so he could work on math? (Which he didn't, he wrote many collaborative papers. Hard to believe someone socially retarded could publish so many papers in collaboration.) Unless you have proof that programming is harder than becoming a great musician or mathematician?

Your premise doesn't make much sense anyway. I think a lot of simple social skills are picked up early, at a young age, before you start fanatically devoting yourself to whatever occupation you choose. I can understand it if you're not a smooth talker and even a little rude, but some of the social mistakes I've witnessed are simple ones like following me back to my room when I've stopped making eye contact and responding to their conversation. Like--FTW, following me back to my room?! When I've stopped talking to you? I really do not think you have to sacrifice a deep understanding of recursion to grasp a basic point like eye contact.

I also disagree with your last sentence. Social retardation is relative, not absolute, and social skills exist online, too.