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Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by colanderman on Thursday September 03, 2015 @07:36PM (#10168109)
Wow, I wish they had something like this for the more modern SimCities. I was playing SimCity 3 or 4 and built a road going to a beach and to this day haven't figured out why no-one drove on it.

It's hard to play a game that approximates reality enough that instruction manuals aren't provided, but differs just slightly enough to foil expectations.

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by Tiktaalik on Thursday September 03, 2015 @08:50PM (#10168294)
It would be great if future versions of SimCity and Cities:Skylines would embed more direct urban planning lessons in their games. This way players would learn what makes a city work properly.

A problem is that most peoples' only knowledge of urban planning comes from looking around at their own town, and unfortunately most towns in North America are incredibly poorly designed. A SimCity player that bases their city on a typical North American one will often wind up with a dysfunctional and gridlocked town, just like real life.

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by DiabloD3 on Friday September 04, 2015 @01:54AM (#10168997)
Cities: Skylines is an absolutely amazing game, but yeah, I wish there was more lessons. I keep discovering new things that I can do with it that, honestly, should have been taught to me early on.
Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by JoshTriplett on Thursday September 03, 2015 @08:07PM (#10168186)
> It's hard to play a game that approximates reality enough that instruction manuals aren't provided, but differs just slightly enough to foil expectations.

Agreed. For instance, it takes a while to find out that the "right" way to build a successful city in SimCity (and not necessarily in reality) is to never build a single tile of roadway, and instead construct an exclusively rail-based grid.

On the other hand, some of its city planning lessons work very well: for instance, interleave residential and commercial every other 9x9 block (3x3 set of 3x3 zones, with a non-RCI zone in the middle), rather than separating residential and commercial, to avoid creating huge commutes. (Meanwhile, keep industrial far away from everything so it doesn't bother anyone.)

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by danharaj on Thursday September 03, 2015 @08:43PM (#10168280)
Ideas of "right" in open-ended games where the goal is merely to keep going are always weird to me. I know exactly what you meant by putting it in quotes.
Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by hguant on Friday September 04, 2015 @12:09AM (#10168770)
"Right" as in "more optimal", not "only correct solution".
Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by JoshTriplett on Friday September 04, 2015 @12:56AM (#10168876)
More optimal only in the context of the game's engine and ruleset, which is what danharaj was saying deserved the quotes around "right".
Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by danharaj on Friday September 04, 2015 @10:23AM (#10170626)
Actually, I meant "right" in a weirder sense: The only goal of Sim City and many other games is to endure and persist. Any strategy that survives is a strategy that 'wins' Sim City. In what sense are some strategies more optimal than others? Usually they maximize some other measure of fitness, like land usage or average commute time.

That's cool. I think it's perfectly reasonable to call efficient strategies 'right'. But calling something right means you know something is wrong, and the 'wrong' that comes with this 'right' includes strategies that survive. Clearly, there's room for more than one right.

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by unexistance on Thursday September 03, 2015 @11:52PM (#10168738)
reading the article, actually made me think of SimCity 4 & the game seems to be still following whatever the article / guide says... So I'm guessing the simulation just got better from time to time (except for that SimCity 2013) to reflect the real world, in which some gamers complain SimCity 4 is a bit too hard
Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by Tiktaalik on Friday September 04, 2015 @12:16AM (#10168782)
SimCity and Cities: Skylines are still half stuck in 1950s era car oriented urban planning so they're not totally representative of the real world and modern urban planning. In these games public transportation options are limited, walkable public spaces such as pedestrian only streets and squares are not possible, and bike lanes do not exist. Additionally zoning is either residential, commercial or industrial, so there's no concept of mixed-use zoning (ie. commercial on the bottom of a building, residential on top) which you see everywhere.

I'd love to see a smaller scale game that really focuses on these details. SimCity 4 and other games went in the other direction, building systems around how a metropolitan region of multiple cities would interact.

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by maxsilver on Friday September 04, 2015 @07:42AM (#10169792)
I don't mean to sound rude, but have you actually played Cities: Skylines?

Cities: Skylines, more than any other city simulator I've ever seen, drastically encourages public transit use. The game is made by developers that got their start designing european-style mass transit simulators - http://www.citiesinmotion2.com/ And with the exception of mixed-use zoning, everything your asking for they already have done / just finished, and heavily encourage, in the game.

>In these games public transportation options are limited

There's lots of public transit in the game (Busses, Trains, Subway). Each with custom tracks, bridges, tunnels, etc. And you can completely customize the exact lines and routes of busses and subways (literally down to how often each stop is hit, and in what order). There's also "unmanaged" / "privatized" mass transit (Ferries / Harbours and Airports).

The simulation is exceptionally forgiving about public transit too. People will always choose to take transit, if it's even remotely competitive with driving. People will wait for buses even if they are overwhelmingly overcrowded, etc.

> walkable public spaces such as pedestrian only streets and squares are not possible

This has existed since day one. Click "Parks/Greenery" -> "Paths". You can place paved pedestrian-only streets, or gravel pedestrian-only paths. You can elevate them over/under roads or build pedestrian-only bridges, for instance.

You could recreate nearly the entire Minneapolis walking/bicycle trail network with these tools. And the game rewards you for doing this. (Pedestrian-only walkways generate less noise than full roads do)

> Bike lanes do not exist

They're adding them this month (September, 2015) along with dedicated bus-only lanes - https://www.paradoxplaza.com/cities-skylines-after-dark

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by Tiktaalik on Friday September 04, 2015 @12:56PM (#10171590)
I put in about 5-8 hours into Cities: Skylines before I got distracted by something else and put it aside. Enough time to put in a pretty great small town bus system. Cities: Skylines has great transportation options, much better than Sim City, but it still has a few things it needs to add if one wanted to build modern cities using modern urbanist thinking (eg. Copenhagen).

I noticed when I was playing that you could build pedestrian paths, but it seemed like they were in the context of a park path, not a pedestrian only commercial district. From some Googling it seems that this is the case, that you can't really build for example a downtown commercial core that would be pedestrian only.

The bus system in Skylines is great, and I didn't play long enough to experiment with subways, but I noticed that there didn't seem to be streetcars. I've been to a lot of cities that mix pedestrian streets and street cars and it works very well. That's something I'd really like to see in the game.

I'm glad to see they are adding bike lanes. They're an essential part of the transportation system.

Even though I'm complaining about it, I do want to underline that Cities: Skylines is a great game and a big step forward for SimCity type games. I'm really glad Paradox is continuing to improve the game.

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by grrowl on Friday September 04, 2015 @01:00AM (#10168881)
Cities: Skylines has pedestrian paths which affect whether they drive or walk to their destination, and the public transport options (Bus, Metro-train, Rail-train) will get used if they're more efficient than driving (although it compares against optimistic road travel times, without regard for traffic)
Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by douche on Friday September 04, 2015 @12:55AM (#10168874)
SimTower sort of did this, within the context of a single skyscraper. I'm not sure if it is on GOG or anywhere else legitimate these days - odds are it might not be a simple matter to run on modern Windows, unless you want to spin up an XP VM.

I spent way too many hours playing SimTower as a kid. It was pretty fun, especially if you took advantage of the infinite money cheat involving building a specific type of room in one certain place on the bottom of the level... Not bad for a game that was built around an elevator simulator http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130563/the_designers_n...

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by jcranmer on Friday September 04, 2015 @02:33AM (#10169065)
I've very much enjoyed playing SimTower, and I still have a legitimate exe of it sitting around. But the game is a Win16 game, and my latest experience running it in WINE was crap (it became very easy to completely lock up X). Possibly it might make more sense running in Windows 3.1 in dosbox.

Incidentally, this is a motivation for why I'm playing a bit with statically recompiling x86-16 code to run on x86-32.

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by mosheroperandi on Friday September 04, 2015 @03:41AM (#10169201)
It's actually available on iPad under it's Japanese release name: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/yoot-tower/id379197311?mt=8
Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by amyjess on Friday September 04, 2015 @09:48AM (#10170358)
Yoot Tower was actually the sequel to SimTower, not the Japanese name for it.
Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by ionised on Friday September 04, 2015 @12:28PM (#10171436)
There is a HUGE emphasis on public transport in Cities: Skylines.

Neglecting it in any way is a sure way to cause traffic nightmares that are difficult toi rectify.

Re:The SimCity Planning Commission Handbook by Tiktaalik on Friday September 04, 2015 @12:49PM (#10171544)
Yes Cities is really good, but it can do better. It's more SimCity 4 & 2013 that was really stuck in the past. I'm hoping for a lot more improvements to transit in Skylines with the inevitable sequel.