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Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by tibbon on Saturday December 26, 2009 @06:11PM (#1016385)
I flew yesterday and had an interesting encounter. I accidentally had a small set of lockpicks in my jacket pocket. I'm always VERY careful to completely empty my bag after I accidentally brought a knife into the security area once a few years ago in my camera bag (which they found of course, but didn't give me much trouble about. I always keep one in my camera bag for cutting tape, wires, tree branches in photo shoots, opening packages, etc)- however I didn't check my coat this time as I was rushed. Opps.

Anyway, I took lockpicks through. Of course they noticed them in the x-ray machine. The guy was super nice about it. He was like, "What are these?" and I responded, "Lockpicks. I just have them for practice on stuff and learning, I didn't mean to travel with them. I'm sorry if they are something that is contraband from carrying on airplanes and I totally understand if you have to keep them."

The guy looked a little puzzled. "Like you use to start or open a car?". Now honestly I've never tried picking a car. I've tried picking my motorcycle when the key fell out once, but never a car. I say, "I guess you could, but I've never tried it." I was worried that he thought I was a car thief or something. He then said, "Oh, well I've been having this trouble with my car ignition. Its really lose. I've always carried heavy keys and I think its broken. Do you know anything about fixing it?" He was intrigued and just was curious. Not accusatory at all. I was kinda shocked. He looked at them and said, "They don't look sharp or anything. They should be fine. We let people carry through small scissors which are more dangerous than these because if you break them in two they are two small knives if they are sharp"

He scanned them through the x-ray once more, and handed them to me and was asking a few other questions about good locksmiths in the area to fix his car. I apologized again for the trouble, but he said and this is the important part:

"Look, I used to work for a prison. The security here is a joke compared to real security at prisons. These wouldn't get through there, but we let all sorts of stuff through that would probably get someone killed in prison fights or would be instantly contraband there."

I'd thought about this before, but the bluntness and understanding that he had behind this was a real shock to me. I'd never thought that the airports were secure- but compare them to an actual 'secure' environment like a prison and they seem wide open.

It is truly unfortunate that the higher ups at the TSA don't promote this guy to the top and have the same understanding as him. You're not making a secure place with these practices- you're making placebo.

If we wanted real security EVERYONE would probably need cavity searches and no one could take anything at all onboard. I'm glad we aren't trying for that obviously.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by thwarted on Saturday December 26, 2009 @07:43PM (#1016483)
I'm glad you had a good, reasonable experience. On Wednesday, I was told by a TSO that I couldn't bring my baby on board. She was making a joke, because she wanted to assert that the baby was cute, but telling someone they can't bring their baby on a plane at the security checkpoint is about as serious a joke to parents as joking about carrying a bomb is to TSOs.
Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by philwelch on Saturday December 26, 2009 @09:53PM (#1016588)
For what it's worth, you apparently kept your cool. I imagine if your reaction was anywhere near how you really felt about it you'd be detained and tasered for awhile.
Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by tibbon on Saturday December 26, 2009 @11:02PM (#1016655)
I'll admit I was nervous. I normally pass through completely unnervous- but as soon as they went to rescan my jacket, I knew what was in the pocket. I know in some states simply carrying lockpicks is illegal (probably MA too for all I know, but I do it anyway), let alone taking them on a plane. I was thinking, "shit, shit, shit, shit" but knew that if I played as sincere, naive and innocent (which to a degree I was all three) then I'd be fine.

I do know however, just as in any situation with any law enforcement (or quasi law enforcement) that you do not lie to them. You talk around the truth like an Aes Sedai if you must, but don't lie. If you are pulled into a room for more questioning and you're forced to reveal that you lied, it will be much worse to get out of.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by philwelch on Saturday December 26, 2009 @11:40PM (#1016697)
The best way not to lie to cops is not to say anything at all. If you lie they'll pin you on your lies, and if you tell the truth they'll crucify you with that, too. Thankfully you have a constitutional right to remain silent.

Personally, I only do that when it seems like serious business. When I'm pulled over for speeding there's no gain playing mute.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by thwarted on Sunday December 27, 2009 @01:50AM (#1016819)
Considering how this thread expanded, I'm not sure who you're responding to.

It was more of a "this is what my tax dollars is paying for?" eye rolling moment. That being said, the TSO who joked that we couldn't bring our baby on the plane was apparently loitering not doing whateve her job was and was assigned to go do something by her manager as we finished putting our shoes on, so there are at least some professional in management at the TSA.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by philwelch on Sunday December 27, 2009 @02:10AM (#1016835)
I was responding to you, which is why I nested it under your comment. I did a double take at tibbon's response to me, but it seemed like he was taking it on a slight tangent, as happens.

I just have to imagine if it was my kid, I would have freaked out and been a little pissed off. I don't think I could have kept my cool as you have, and I fear for the consequences of that.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by ori_b on Saturday December 26, 2009 @07:04PM (#1016440)
> If we wanted real security EVERYONE would probably need cavity searches and no one could take anything at all onboard. I'm glad we aren't trying for that obviously.

I almost wish we would - without gradual phase in. Then at least people would stop crying for security, and pressure the government out of it. Well, I guess I can dream.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by ghshephard on Saturday December 26, 2009 @10:20PM (#1016623)
I'd like to think that the takeway from this for most people is that the TSA is making _some_ attempt to secure the planes, but isn't reaching for very strong security. At the very least that would involve:

  o No carry on luggage
  o Pat Downs for everyone
 
The problem with this is it's unworkable for general civilian use of aviation in which mothers want to carry breast milk, people need to bring medicine with them, etc...

I always find it annoying when people whine and complain about how incompetent that TSA is in allowing a knife, razor, or other contraband item onto an airplane. They could, with two simple rules eliminate the chance of those items getting onto a plane - but do you seriously want to live in a world where we go to such lengths to ensure your security?

Also note, taking these steps _would not_ be mere security theater, they really would increase security - at the cost of a lot of convenience or things that make commercial aviation bearable (or possible for some people).

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by tibbon on Saturday December 26, 2009 @10:58PM (#1016651)
Add on that everyone changes out of the street clothing they are wearing into something provided by the airport. Shoes without laces (could be weapons), etc. You get your clothes back once you land and are on the other side of security at your destination.

If you've got medicine, you hand it over to the staff, who will administer the doses when needed, but don't allow you to have it prior.

And breast milk would be dispensed the same way- or they'd encourage mothers to use natural breast milk.

You can bring nothing, absolutely nothing with you on the plane.

This of course, would be absurd for civilians- but of course, infinitely more secure. It would be prison-like (as many of these are things they'd do for prison transport) but definitely secure. I'd like to see someone pull off something then on a plane- hard pressed to imagine how they could. They'd have to be Chuck Norris and have a good roundhouse kick (and a 1st class seat space for the said kick) to take the plane or do anything damaging.