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Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by tlrobinson on Saturday December 26, 2009 @04:32PM (#1016297)
Security whack-a-mole.

Box cutters used in 9/11... ban anything sharp

Shoe bomber... make people take off shoes

Liquid explosive plot... limit liquids and gels to 4oz containers

Guy tries to explode bomb in his lap during the last hour of a flight... no things in your lap during the last hour.

It's comical and tragic.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by physcab on Saturday December 26, 2009 @06:47PM (#1016422)
Note: I do research in explosives detection

With the exception of the last one, banning box cutters, requiring people to take off their shoes, and limiting explosives are actually quite reasonable for security. Current detection technologies can't really detect explosive substances, except for the X-ray machine, but the best it can do is tell you the density of the materials in question, not necessarily what type of explosive it is. So running your shoes through the machine makes sense, as enough dangerous solid explosive can be packed into the sole of a shoe.

Liquid explosives are extremely unstable. The explosive power is probably not enough to blow up a plane, but it can definitely injure or kill many people or set fire to the plane. Plus, no machine exists to distinguish explosive liquids from non-explosive liquids at the scale that an airport requires.

For the curious, I'll just briefly list some of the detection systems that are out on the market, and what their capabilities are:

- Metal detector

- X-ray machine - Densities of materials

- Ion Mobility Scanner (eg. Puffers or Swipers) - Trace explosives detection, but easily confused by other nitro compounds such as hand cremes, fertilizer, and uh..jet fuel.

- Millimeter Wave Scanner (eg. Whole Body Scanner) - Anomaly detection (eg. can penetrate clothing), but cannot identify explosives.

- Terahertz Imaging - Can penetrate clothing and can identify materials, including explosives, but can be blocked by water and hasn't reached commercialization.

- Other wavelength imaging - Our group uses UV light and can detect trace amounts of explosives, but does not penetrate clothing. It's only a surface technique.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by adam-_- on Saturday December 26, 2009 @07:53PM (#1016499)
Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by physcab on Sunday December 27, 2009 @05:04AM (#1016918)
I couldn't really tell what their technology is, but it looks like a deviation of ion mobility or gas chromatography. Either way, it probably isn't robust enough for widespread use, since it looks like it has to ingest a sample, and that just isn't practical when you have hundreds of people waiting in line.
Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by chromatic on Sunday December 27, 2009 @01:52AM (#1016825)
> Liquid explosives are extremely unstable.

They're stable enough when TSA makes passengers throw them all in a trash can before passing through screening.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by physcab on Sunday December 27, 2009 @05:07AM (#1016919)
The rule is meant to be a deterrent. I doubt there is any terrorist who has a bottle of liquid explosives and reads the TSA sign and thinks, "damn, I guess I gotta throw this away".

While I'm on the topic, I read recently (can't remember where) that the proportion of successful detonations of a liquid explosive was actually pretty low, since many potential terrorists are killed in accidental explosions. As a side anecdote, we once had an FBI officer bring in a canister of some unknown liquid explosive for our group to test using our equipment, and I remember he was carrying it with the hand he "didn't use much" just in case it detonated.

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by Daniel_Newby on Sunday December 27, 2009 @01:12AM (#1016792)
"Current detection technologies can't really detect explosive substances ..."

There are plenty of direct explosives detectors, such as the ICx products: http://www.icxt.com/products/icx-detection/explosives/

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by doughsmith on Monday December 28, 2009 @10:07AM (#1018632)
The sensing element in the Fido XT can be used for several hours, depending on the environment you are testing in. If you are testing and have not found any type of explosive substance then the sensing element will not 'clog' up as fast because there is not particulates that are attaching themselves to the side of the element; quenching the light.
Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by physcab on Sunday December 27, 2009 @05:01AM (#1016915)
Fido isn't for airport security. It's for small applications where you want to inspect explosive traces in particular situations. As far as I know it's single use, and you have to replace the polymeric/chemical sensor on each application.
Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by Daniel_Newby on Sunday December 27, 2009 @10:03PM (#1018012)
Fido sensing elements are generally good for many hours of operation. The PaxPoint product is specifically intended for liquid screening in airports. The main limitation is that they need a focused target to work on. The holy grail is a walk-through chemical sensor, but the physics of that is challenging.
Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by dtf on Saturday December 26, 2009 @05:55PM (#1016371)
I suppose we should count ourselves lucky this guy didn't blow himself up on a plane.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/2833157/Bomb-in-ana...

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by nvn1 on Saturday December 26, 2009 @05:22PM (#1016340)
Perhaps I should embark on a start-up that sells strengthened chambers capable of withstanding explosives to replace traditional seating that the attendants lock you in before take-off.

EDIT: Or redesign the seating layout to turn the cabin into some kind of panopticon where all passengers can watch out for any suspicious behaviour. They can have a voting system which detains a passenger if the number of concerned fellow passengers passes a threshold...

Re:Security or theater: no electronics on international flig... by prodigal_erik on Saturday December 26, 2009 @05:33PM (#1016354)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel

I've never seen a coffin hotel in person, but it sounds much nicer than the cattle car I'm faced with this evening. I'm guessing they can't do it because we couldn't evacuate within the FAA's 90 second deadline. Hm, maybe make an escape pod out of it...