News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by hga on Wednesday December 23, 2009 @05:24PM (#1013016)
As a rule this sort of fraud isn't.

If the result is important, people will try to do work based on it and sooner or later figure out that the foundation is rotten and why.

Most of the time the work isn't important, except to the "scientist" himself in accumulating published papers ("publish or perish").

This is one of the reasons there's no need to directly double check every scientific conclusion, instead you tend to work on good faith and then backtrack when things get screwy.

Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by bbgm on Wednesday December 23, 2009 @05:50PM (#1013042)
Exactly. And that's often how fraud gets found. You are trying to build on someones research and some of the assumptions aren't working or you can't baseline the work. That usually leads to trying to reproduce the original work and voila ... fraud at the worst (I'd say most of the time it's just sloppy work)
Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by carbocation on Wednesday December 23, 2009 @06:21PM (#1013069)
I disagree with your assertion, due to the consequence of a similar series of faked results first reported on earlier this week.

Essentially, people wasted 2 months of distributed computing time trying to use the data from a fake crystal structure. Unsurprisingly, these were unsuccessful. Hundreds of thousands of compute hours were wasted and people were diverted from making real discoveries because the structure was already 'solved'. This is a huge setback, in my opinion.

Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by hga on Wednesday December 23, 2009 @06:51PM (#1013098)
We disagree on how huge of a setback it is, "how significant this is in the scheme of things" as the original question put it.

A setback, yes. Huge for those who wasted their time? Maybe.

But compare it to, say, Lysenkoism. That was a huge setback for Soviet biology.

Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by carbocation on Wednesday December 23, 2009 @09:24PM (#1013266)
That's like saying a supernova is not significant because it's not the Big Bang.
Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by bbgm on Thursday December 24, 2009 @01:58PM (#1014191)
I've wasted 2 months of distributed computing time on just bad assumptions made by mistakes I made, so as noted below, in the big picture, that's a relatively minor loss. Does it set back science. Of course, but is it catastrophic, no.

As someone pointed out above, in fields where you collection and analysis times are measured in years if not decades you could run into trouble, but for chemistry and biology where you are at significantly shorter collection timescales, it isn't that big of an issie

Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by gort on Wednesday December 23, 2009 @07:34PM (#1013134)
a similar series of faked results first reported on earlier this week

Wait, is this a separate scandal? What's with all this bogus crystallography?

Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by adw on Thursday December 24, 2009 @09:07AM (#1013804)
A crystallographic paper is more or less just a structure determination in a common file format (CIF - the article talks about it). There's very little in the way of interpretation.

As such, they're way easier to falsify than papers in even really closely related fields. I've spent plenty of time pulling structures from ICSD and other databases populated off Acta Cryst; my PhD was in computational mineralogy - but a raw simulation isn't a publishable result in the way data hot off the diffractometer can be.

By the way, if anyone here gets the chance to visit a neutron source (eg Isis, isis.rl.ac.uk), take it! Amaaaazing machines.

Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by gort on Friday December 25, 2009 @12:11PM (#1015106)
That web address requires www: http://www.isis.rl.ac.uk/
Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by carbocation on Wednesday December 23, 2009 @07:58PM (#1013163)
I'm wondering the same thing. Makes me nervous for noncrystallographic sciences, too.

The results were certainly different but perhaps the lab is the same. I'll check when I'm not on my iPhone.

Re:Prominent Chinese crystallographer faked data for years. by yummyfajitas on Wednesday December 23, 2009 @08:22PM (#1013189)
You are probably right about these fake crystal structures. The moment someone tries to do some chemistry based on these structures, they will fail and eventually figures out that the structure is wrong.

However, your conclusion doesn't follow for fields where experimental results are few and far between. Fraud would be much harder to detect in a field like astrophysics or econometrics. There simply isn't enough data, so rather than contradicting the fraudulent results, you will probably just average truth with lies.