Re:Interview with a Hedge Fund Manager: "I'm sure today I wo...
by curi on Sunday January 20, 2008 @01:39PM
(#101279)
one thing i don't understand is how can you make money by trading every couple minutes? because aren't there fees for every trade.
Re:Interview with a Hedge Fund Manager: "I'm sure today I wo...
by nostrademons on Sunday January 20, 2008 @10:57PM
(#101432)
Most of the folks who do this are the big financial firms who have a direct line to the exchange (actually, I've heard of boxes being colocated in the exchange to shave a few milliseconds off the trade time). They aren't paying retail commission rates.
There are still transaction costs though, mostly in the form of the bid-ask spread and the effect of moving the market when you buy or sell a lot of shares. Reducing these transaction costs is big business - one of the main areas that my employer was in was finding "hidden" liquidity where you can trade a lot without materially affecting the stock price.
Re:Interview with a Hedge Fund Manager: "I'm sure today I wo...
by eru on Monday January 21, 2008 @03:30AM
(#101489)
Could you give an example of this hidden liquidity? Seems interesting.
Re:Interview with a Hedge Fund Manager: "I'm sure today I wo...
by nostrademons on Monday January 21, 2008 @08:41PM
(#101950)
It was something my boss did and I wasn't really involved in. As I understand it, though, it involved looking at NASDAQ Level 3 quotes (Level 3 basically gives you the full orderbook, so you have access to all limit orders placed on a certain security) and figuring out which stocks had the largest quantity for sale at a price near the current quote. It may also have had a statistical part to it too - that liquidity technically isn't hidden because it's visible for anyone who pays for L3 quotes, but you can then compare that to actual price movements after a certain quantity is traded, and then estimate what fraction of shares are visible in the order book as limit orders vs. what's sitting in computer algorithms ready to be placed as market orders if the price changes.
Re:Interview with a Hedge Fund Manager: "I'm sure today I wo...
by albertcardona on Sunday January 20, 2008 @05:05PM
(#101350)
go read about subprimes here: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/01/straigh...
Obviously fees are factored in.
While I was there, I thought about doing a product that'd try to predict the algorithms other people were using and profit off them, but you run into some really thorny epistemological problems. For starters, you generally can't find out which firms are making which trades, unless you're the firm itself (that's how our analysis product worked; it was for firms to evaluate their own performance, not their competitors). Most buy-side firms aggregate their orders through a few brokers, which keep their clientns' identities confidential. So you see "A sell order for 100 shares of MSFT at $33.01 came through Morgan Stanley", but you have no idea which fund placed the order or what other trades came from them. The signal gets lost in the statistical noise of all the other trades.
There's also no absolute standard of value in finance. Sure, you can benchmark values against discounted cash flow (assuming that you can even predict the cash flows, which is far from certain for most companies), but it may take years for a stock to revert to fair value as measured by discounted cash flow. Many of these automated trading systems operate over minutes or seconds, and don't care that the stock will eventually crash in 2-3 years.