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Re:Cool Derivatives and Bank Consultants by noname123 on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @12:36PM (#10086688)
I trade options and was curious about the Vest startup: https://www.vestfin.com/

I think how they manage their risk is buy buying a covered call and put for their customers on the open market:

e.g.,

To replicate their SPY hedging strategy by Jan 15th 2016 here: https://www.vestfin.com/build-strategy/?symbol=SPY&preown=fa...

SPY is trading at 209.93;

"Select how much upside gain you are willing to cap at (235)", so sell a covered call at 235 that expires by 1/15/16; current options market: $0.04 credit

"Select how much downside risk you are willing to lose to (178)", so buy a put at 178 that expires by 1/15/16; current options market: $2.02 debit

Cost basis to implement via open market: $1.98/share

Cost basis to implement via Vest: $5.11/share

So their profit margin should be: $3.13/share or ~$300/option contract (account $13 for their commission and margin fees); now add their 0.5% management fee for the dollar value of this 100-lot SPY position (21504*0.005) or $107.52.

So the total profit they make per 1 SPY option contract is: $407.52!

And their active management involves only and only buying and selling these two option positions at the get-go!

If so, this is a pretty good business to get into!

Can someone else enlighten me if I did the math wrong here or I'm missing something here that I didn't account for their active management?

Re:Cool Derivatives and Bank Consultants by jackgavigan on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @01:32PM (#10087099)
It's slightly more complex than that because they're "protecting" you between $178 and $210. If you scroll down and click the "Preview Your Strategy" button, it'll show you exactly what they're going to do.

So, in your example, they would:

Short SPY 2016-01-15 call option with strike price at $235.00

Long SPY 2016-01-15 call option with strike price at $210.00

Short SPY 2016-01-15 put option with strike price at $178.00

The net cost of that (including commissions) would be $516.24

They'd also retain cash of $21,000

If the price ended above $235, you would exercise your option to Buy @ $210 (using the $21k cash), but would be forced to Sell @ $235, so you'd end up making a profit of $25 per share (i.e. $25,000 in total).

If the price ended below $178, you would be forced to Buy @ $178 (using $17,800 of your $21,000) and you would then sell at the market price, losing up to $178 per share. You'd also get back the unused $3,200 cash.

If the price ended between $178 and $210, you wouldn't do anything, nobody would exercise the options you'd sold them and you'd get back $21,000 in cash.

If the price ended between $210 and $235, you would exercise your option to Buy @ $210, and you would then sell at the market price, so you'd end up with somewhere between $21,000 and $25,000.

Re:Cool Derivatives and Bank Consultants by noname123 on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @01:47PM (#10087199)
Thanks jacksgavigan, I misread. Now I see the option positions that they're doing, I missed the fact that they are doing a bull-put spread and then a covered call.

Looks like they only make money on asset management fees and also commission fees; not on the spread of the option positions.

Re:Cool Derivatives and Bank Consultants by jackgavigan on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @01:49PM (#10087216)
Don't forget the interest on the $21,000 (tiny though it may be at the moment).