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Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TeMPOraL on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @04:56AM (#10084344)
Agree, though one could argue that what AM is doing is an explicit attempt to damage the basic building block of society, i.e. family. So this becomes somewhat a matter of public interest then.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by dagw on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:02AM (#10084367)
one could argue that what AM is doing is an explicit attempt to damage the basic building block of society

Sure, but one could also argue the same about per-marital sex, divorce and homosexuals.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TsiCClawOfLight on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @06:59AM (#10084671)
Which conservative Christians do.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by spacecowboy_lon on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @07:54AM (#10084852)
mm so the FBI just have to look at the ex employees backgrounds up bringing - should be easy to do some profiling "not just for brown skinned people any more"
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TeMPOraL on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:16AM (#10084404)
Marriages are not just moral issues, they're also contracts between people themselves and between the couples and the government. They come with privileges and tax breaks and social status, and all of it is built upon assumption that marriages are mostly permanent. AM is explicitly attempting to attack that.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by kalms on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:55AM (#10084509)
Who are you to judge how people live and should their lifes? How dull. There are so many different family structures — incl. open relationships.

A family's structure and agreements is not public, nor should they be. Unless said family choose to disclose that fact by their own volition.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by Lawtonfogle on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @10:14AM (#10085602)
>Who are you to judge how people live and should their lifes?

S/he is just like all the other people who engage in electing law makers that create laws that control how we live. Part of being in a democracy like government is that everyone gets a little say in how we all live our lives with a majority rule. Things like constitutions might mean a super majority is needed for some things instead of a simple majority, but the right to have a say is still there.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TeMPOraL on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @07:18AM (#10084726)
I'm not judging. People may live however they want. Institution of marriage is one of the choices, that is established in the society and carries with it some particular set of features. In particular, joining in marriage is somewhat public, even if it's much less public than it used to be. Also marriage comes with explicit (even if not legally binding) expectation you don't cheat. If you don't like those aspects, don't marry; no one is telling you have to, open relationships are fine too.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by kalms on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @07:31AM (#10084771)
Maybe you have that expectation about marriage, but that doesn't mean your expectations are shared by every married couple.

You're forcing your point-of-view upon others.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TeMPOraL on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @07:40AM (#10084802)
I'm not forcing my POV on anyone, I'm just stating what is the generally accepted POV in the western society. You may share it or not, but you ignore it at your own peril.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by kalms on Thursday August 20, 2015 @08:30AM (#10091378)
Consider it ignored.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by humanrebar on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @07:38AM (#10084790)
> Who are you to judge how people live and should their lifes?

Churches have no ability to enforce promises with violence or confiscation. And they shouldn't. So it's important for governments to establish some sort of lowest common denominator and hold people legally accountable.

I understand the impulse to be non-judgmental, but when both laws and the rest of society get out of the business of enforcing marriage contracts, you actually take choices away from people that want a stronger marriage contract. They can no longer enter an enforceable contract that requires monogamy.

We're not adding more choice for everyone that way. We're just choosing (as a society) a different lifestyle.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by dagw on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @07:54AM (#10084856)
you actually take choices away from people that want a stronger marriage contract.

Isn't that what prenups are for? (modulo the fact that it is sometimes difficult to enforce prenups).

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by humanrebar on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @08:04AM (#10084888)
The difficulty in enforcing prenups is partly the problem here, yes.

Let's say you like the marriage rules pre-1970 (no no-fault divorce). You can't write up a prenup that resembles that and have it be enforced by the government (reject applications for divorce and applications to marry someone else).

More options and freedom weren't added when each state adopted no-fault divorce. One option was taken away (pre-1970 marriage contracts) and another was picked (no-fault divorce).

Someone might not like with pre-1970 marriage contracts, but who are they to judge someone else's culture and preferences?

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by lentil_soup on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:49AM (#10084490)
I think this is not such a big issue, if it was divorce would be illegal.

If anything I would argue the problem lies then on how the estate sees marriage, not the other way around. The agreement I have with my wife is between us, no one needs to judge what we do with our private lives.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TeMPOraL on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @07:15AM (#10084712)
I think this is a thing that is actually changing in the recent decades. It used to be that marriages were more about connecting families, securing deals and even state issues (and so it still is in some parts of the world). Nowadays in Western society, marriages tend to be more about two people and their decision. But we're not 100% in the latter model yet, there's lot of social and legal baggage around the older ways. Divorces are not illegal, but they're still socially stigmatized.

The point is, we have to deal with how things are actually now, and not only with how they may/should be.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by lentil_soup on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:07AM (#10084380)
Haha, well that's stretching the argument a bit, but for the sake of conversation I would then ask for proof that family is indeed the "basic building block of society" and that what MA is doing is actually damaging it to an extent that it can be considered a public safety issue.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by DanBC on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @06:21AM (#10084580)
Not proof, but "the family" is recognised as really important in international law.

They don't define a family as one male adult, one female adult, and some children by birth. So, personally, I use a broad definition of family that includes homosexuals and fostering and polyamory, while rejecting stuff like forced marriage or child marriage.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by humanrebar on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @07:39AM (#10084797)
> I would then ask for proof that family is indeed the "basic building block of society"

I think the burden of proof goes the other way, considering marriage laws (including those that punish infidelity) have been part of common law for hundreds of years.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by gnaritas on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @11:00AM (#10085937)
The burden of proof is upon the one who makes the claim, so no it isn't the other way around.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TeMPOraL on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:48PM (#10088754)
Have you seen a society of random people who don't have long-term relationships? A country which laws don't treat family as a basic concept, and third of which is not built around it?

That family is a fundamental unit in human societies is a pretty much self-evident thing at this point. The burden of proof lies squarely on those who disagree with observable reality.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by tlb on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:54PM (#10088790)
Malinowski [0] describes a highly functional such society. Instead of paternity and monogamy, they had a similarly complex but different set of taboos. Reading it will help you realize what a cultural bubble we all live in, and that there are completely different configurations of society that also work.

[0] http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Savages-Argonauts-Western-Pacif...

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TeMPOraL on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @06:20PM (#10088937)
Never heard of it before, thanks!
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by gnaritas on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @06:31PM (#10089010)
Families exist regardless of marriage, marriage != family, so to claim that attacking marriage tears at the foundations of society and then to move the goal post and say they're attacking families, your must first demonstrate what you're saying is true. Marriages don't make families, loved ones do.
Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by mtgx on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:24AM (#10084425)
> Agree, though one could argue that what AM is doing is an explicit attempt to damage the basic building block of society, i.e. family

Eh. So you think the people exposing husbands and wives cheating on each other are the ones breaking families, not the ones actually cheating?

Don't shoot the messenger, comes to mind (okay, maybe imprison the messenger if he obtained the data in an illegal way, but I don't think he should be imprisoned or worse for "breaking families", when he wasn't the one committing the act that ends up breaking the family apart).

Isn't that kind of how private eyes work, too? Should they be punished for "breaking families"?

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by TeMPOraL on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @05:32AM (#10084445)
I'm not saying that people exposing cheating spouses are breaking families. I'm saying that AM was by explicitly encouraging that. It's not just a random dating website, it's the website targeting married people and running campaigns saying cheating is OK.

I am definitely not arguing for shooting the messenger (I apologize if my comment was not clear enough about that) - what I want to say is that I may agree the boundary between "ok hack" and "not ok hack" may lie on the public concerns/private concerns line, but IMO one could argue that Ashley Madison lies on the "public interest" side.

Re:The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked by mtgx on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @06:11AM (#10084550)
Actually, it's my fault, I thought you were referring to the people who dumped the data.